MarekN

Can anybody here please give me a hand in comparing this pair? I am anxious to hear from someone with hands-on experience, especially on how they stand up in driving feel and outright performance.
As far as practical issues, I think I can figure that out on my own. Btw, our test drive of the Cayman is coming up in the next few weeks.

I have only driven a regular M3, but am seriously considering one of these two cars. Both have almost identical power/weight ratios (M3 euro version) and both cost practically the same (M3 CS is good enough right out of the box, Cayman is just asking to be specced up). I am also aware that the new M3 is coming next year, and with it stronger depreciation of the E46, but that is beside the point as far as pure driving goes.

The way I see it, the M3 is less-compromised from the viewpoint of marketing-led (anti)engineering, which was discussed here before, and is all the better for it, M differential and all other things included.
The Cayman seems to have an obligation not to endanger the 911, which is something that the M3 doesn´t have to fight with in the E46 range. On the other hand, a Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche, with everything it stands for surely included in the package (sound, feel, handling, ownership experience).

I hope you see the dilema.

Porsh-uh

There is a dilemma I wish I could see.

pstoppani

I traded my M3 CS (Competion Package) for the Cayman S and have never regretted it. The Cayman S is on another level of driving experience (BTW - The M3 CS was my third M3, I had two E36's previously and loved them all).

The M3 is is just a marketing-crippled as any car; it can't be faster than an M5).

BTW - my license plate is "CROC8M3"

I see no dilema...

nick1

i was also thinking ´bout an M3, but figured that:
1.i will be driving the car 4 years, and the m3 is already aged (especially because it didnt get the optical facelift 3 years ago. So its basically a 6 year old design already).

2. "a porsche is a porsche"...

3. midengine is way more fun.

Nick

teamsketch

I have been struggling with this dilemma for a few months now so I'll give you my observations that I have obsessed over. I currently have an E36 M3 and a E46 M3 without the CP. I have driven the Cayman several times as well as a E46 M3 with CP several times.

First off they are radically different cars. If you want to compare Cayman road feel with a BMW than a better match would be an E36 than an E46. The E46 is big, and feels that way when you are throwing it around. Out of the box, it understeers horrifically. I have autocrossed the E46 and it was very disappointing. On the track it wasn't as bad as the speeds increase. The E46 M3 has a lot of space, and is quite possibly the best compromise between practicality and sportiness. Possibly the best attribute of the M3 is the engine. Pushing it to 8K is an awesome experience that is great in any gear. With aftermarket exhaust and intake the sound is incredible. Also, in my oppinion, the CP package greatly improves the car overall. You still know you are trying to tame a 3400lb beast, but it is just a little easier.

The Cayman is small, light and oozes with fun. The fact that you can perform a 4 wheel drift with the stock suspension is amazing. The intake and exhaust sounds are great from the factory. Steering feel is incredible and always accurate unlike the E46 M3. The Cayman feels like you are driving a car while the M3 feels more like you're "taming" the car. From a performance standpoint the only issue I have is with the engine. The power is only so-so compared to the M3. And I honestly don't care what people say about the power to weight ratio. Drive them both and you will see. Also, after driving the M3 for so long, it is always disappointing to hit the cutoff at 7200RPMS. I always feel kind of cheated like there could be more there.

Then there is the cost issue. This is a big issue for me because you want to have fun without being totally irresponsible. A fully loaded M3 with CP will come in at around $60K. This includes pretty much everything. A stripped Cayman without PASM and NAV or a lot of other frills will come in at around $65K, give or take. Not much difference, but if you factor in depreciation or lease residuals you will get seriously dinged on the Cayman. That unfortunately for me is a limiting factor.

If you have the money and don't need the space, hands down get the Cayman. If you have tighter financial constraits, and it is your only car, the decision becomes more difficult.

just my .02

soltino

CP <?>

tino

mooty

cp= competition package. alcantera str wheel, 19" wheels, i believe corss drilled rotors (this i am not so sure about) and more leeway on DSC.

teamsketch

Straight from BMW:

Competition Package
Includes "M track" mode for the Dynamic Stability Control, compound and cross-drilled brake rotors, 19" x 8" front and 19" x 9.5" rear M Cross-Spoke forged alloy wheels with 225/40ZR19 front and 255/35ZR19 rear high performance tires, modified steering gear ratio and suspension settings, alcantara sport steering wheel and handbrake grip, and Competition Package aluminum trim on the doors, dashboard and center console. (Cruise control, all multi-function steering wheel functions and BMW Assist are removed from vehicles equipped with the Competition Package option. Telephone functions and BMW Assist are available when the on-board navigation option is ordered.)

The only really important parts are the faster steering ratio, suspension settings, bigger brakes, and m-track mode DSC. In the dry m-track mode (same as PSM in sport mode) is worthless but in the wet I believe it is important because even for an excellent driver things happen too fast at high speeed to be able to counteract and the standard DSC is way too intrusive. All 2005/06 M3's had the upgraded suspension so that isn't that big of a deal. I have not heard whether the larger brakes can handle track use. The older smaller ones could not.

pstoppani

I warped my CS M3 front brake rotors first time on the track.

After owning 4 Porsches and tracking all of them, I have yet to have any brake issues. I've owned 3 M3s and warped the rotors at least once on all 3 of them.

MarekN

Thanks for all the input! Much of what you said echoes what I have read in magazines or heard from other owners.

The Cayman is said to be in for more power in the Clubsport version (around 350 hp), but being the equivalent of a GT3 or possibly GT3 RS in the Cayman range, I don´t think that this is the way to go for an everyday car, especially if the roads are not smooth. For me, the introduction of the Clubsport will mean that Porsche is trying to reach a sort of compromise with all people who want more power. This will still come at the cost of lower practicality, but it will be at least something. It will command a special price, sure, but it will also mean that the Cayman will start to be taken even more seriously. I think time will prove to general enthusiasts that in general the Cayman is more than the sum of its parts (a Boxster + hard top). Memories of the 904 GTS are sure to surface more often. Of course, the focus today is on the new Turbo, but with time, the Cayman is in for more popularity, not as a discount 911, but in my opinion as a discount 911 GT3.

Having 350 hp in the regular Cayman S, now that would be quite something.

Nevertheless, my experience in other cars that have a great chassis and less-than-stellar power tells me that the struggle for big HP numbers is only an issue when going uphill or in a straight line. On twisty roads, I am sure the Cayman will have superior ability in maintaining speed. I also think that on most occasions in such cars, it is the driver´s talent that is the limiting factor in extracting the most speed in corners, not the engine. In this sense, 295 bhp is enough for me.

Btw, as you well know, for the same price you can also get a very nice 996 today. The best-shaped 911 in my mind has always been the 993, at least until I saw the first pictures of a 997 GT3 in white color.

911S3.6

Hi there,
First, the E36 M3 is a lighter more nimble car than the E46 even though it does not have it's power. (Some of the E46s power is also compensating for it's weight increase). The Cayman S is unchallenged in turn-in/rotation, simply incredible. But, not near enough power! Fortunately, because of it's handling, it can take faster entry speeds into the corner, but there just isn't any oomph to moving out. The E36 M3 acutally feels smaller and more like you are in a cockpit than the Cayman, which suffers what all newer generation 911s with the "Subaru" engines-you feel like cargo not like you are wearing the car.

Hope this helps,
Nick

soltino

So they are Subaru because they are water cooled <?> Good one (-%


tino