nate5150

I am having a PPI done on a 987.1 and will pay extra to bore scope.

If it comes back clean on the scope, what is to say it won't score in the future?

Will *ALL* of the S engines in 987.1 eventually score and fail or is it truly a gamble where some will never score? If the scoring is a true design flaw, then ALL of them would/will fail. How do we see certain examples at 150K+ miles in the wild?

This bore scoring stuff is a real nuisance but I don't want to turn a blind eye to it. As someone said, most people who look for cars do not do a not of research, so most sellers of the cars are not even aware of what it is when you ask about it.

I just want to know if ALL of them will fail or if a certain batch somehow got "lucky" with the pistons and materials and they won't score. (Yes, I know the base model 2.7's are "immune").

vitaminC

https://flat6innovations.com/cylinder-bore-scoring/

andy7777

That article sounds like an ad more than anything. You would think that with all the experience they tout a number could be put on this issue. It never is. It's always the same: you need to reconstruct the engine.

I'm not sure how long a Porsche engine is "supposed" to last, but surely, if I have one that's 150,000 miles I won't expect it to go on forever. These guys are talking about bore scoring in 260,000 mile engines. Gimme a break.

They talk about the number of engines they see for this as quadrupling. Really? Why not give out the average mileage of the engines they typically see?

These engines are approaching 20 years old in some cases. There are tens of thousands of them out there. Something is gonna get them all, I'm not convinced it's this.

mytime1

Every engine ever made will eventually bore score if run long enough. If you get a scope and it checks out, you have done your due diligence and have fun with it. Mine is at 140K miles and drive it almost every day. If I start to get scoring at this point, it's because it happens to any older engine and time to rebuild anyway.

XuTVJet

Eventually? Yes. Get the scope done. If it passes, then make sure to follow the various precautionary measures like oil type/grade and most importantly, let the engine oil warm up fully before exceeding 4000rpms or going heavy throttle. On a stone cold engine and 60 degree ambient temps, it takes a full 10 minutes to get the oil up to temp. 30-40 degree temps, you're likely looking at 15 minutes. Sub 30s? Long time.

Shark Attack

After a year of research. I've come to a response to this.

A year ago I would have said yes. But now, I feel different. I feel no, and here is why.

I feel if you run proper oils and do proper service no. Why?

it's my opinion there IS a flaw in the case but this flaw is generally not enough to cause scoring with out some help.

The factors I have found that contribute to scoring are:

1) running cheap low octane fuel. Detonates too fast and puts more pressure on the piston at the top of the stroke vs, a slower burn through the entire power stroke.

2) low quality oils. Simply wash away from the cylinder too fast they don't provide an even coat of oil at run time on the cylinders.

3) leaking fuel injectors. Raw fuel washing the layer of oil off the cylinders and pistons

4) idling the car to warm it up on cold mornings because you don't want to be cold

5) running the crap out of it before the temp needle is alive.

just my opinions from about 1 year of dabbling research, and one year of obsession research. 2 years in the atv industry and dealing with nicasil coated cylinders.

harveyf

I was listening to a podcast where a doctor who specializes in patients with problems after laser eye surgury was asked a version of this question. His answer was "All my patients have had a bad experience with laser eye surgury".

The guys that work on bore scored engines will always answer yes.

Until we drive every 987.1 to the end of their lives, we'll never be able to answer that question definatively

andy7777

My point was, if these vendors (there are really two) wanted to make an educated guess they could quite easily. Note that the Flat6 advertorial talks about 1400 indy shops. It would be relatively trivial to survey this population and combine with their years of purported experience to come up with some general trends.

It's not done for the same reason that the IMS failure data was never developed. It's more profitable to convince the second, third, fourth or fifth buyer of increasingly old cars that they are riding on a ticking time bomb.

RJ80

I have never owned a car with the 3.4 M97 engine, but I have had a couple of them inspected for potential purchase. Both showed no outward signs of scoring, but it was very clear on a bore scope. One of these cars seemed to have a very conscientious owner who used the right oils, had the spin-on oil filter mod, was very cautious of proper warm-up, etc. He had purchased the car with a factory fresh engine after the first was scored, and the replacement engine was scoring again after 60k miles. This car came from a northern climate, which probably contributed. It's possible these cars could have made it another 10-20k miles before rebuilding, but a $30k rebuild on a $30k car made no sense to me.

I do think if the guidelines above are considered, the chance of scoring lessens -- at least to the point that the engine will have six-digit mileage before the scoring gets too severe. But with most of these cars on third, fourth, fifth owners by now, it's likely that most owners didn't realize the consequences.

After spending the better part of a grand on two failed PPIs and then driving a base model car, I decided the base model was enough for my purposes. I chose a .2 car for the oiling system upgrades since I'd like to run some autocross events. I would not have felt comfortable autocrossing any M97 car.

In my opinion, the best way to buy a 987.1 S is to buy a car with an engine that's already been rebuilt to a spec that reduces odds of failure. Let someone else spend the money to get there. The second best way is to buy a clean roller for under $10k and then have an engine built.

GT3twenty10

Over time motors develop a natural clearance so bore scoring itself is less likely when this starts to occur… there all going to need a rebuild someday… when? Well… it’s anyone’s guess

nate5150

Thanks for everyone writing in here. For the time being and for my very first Porsche I am going with a 987.1 2.7 base just to avoid any possible BS of BS.

I don't even want to get into the whole Tiptronic opinions that are out there. Yes, the PDK is way, way faster ... but I had to take a step back and consider my driving is 90% stop and go and doing errands around town. A manual would botehr me in that scenario and I will likely never RIP from a standstill as a light turns green adn GUN IT to wehre I need a PDK doing lightning changes.

Soooo.... base 987.1 with Tiptronic is my decision after a boatload of consideration and looking/reading. After I buy it, I will be peppering this forum with q's about radio upgrade /backup cam/tail light changes and then Im gonna enjoy it.

GT3twenty10

Glad you bought for your needs. Enjoy the car, because that’s what this is really all about

Mansu944

Do you live in a warm climate?
has the car always lived in a warm climate?
if the answers are yes don’t worry about it.
alternately look at a 2006 987.1S and don’t worry about IMS or bore score.