4.0L Conversion for a 987.2 Cayman?
12-06-2023, 06:51 PM
#31
In my mind, the most readily accessible performance would be Carnewal 200 cell headers and finding someone to do a deeper gear set. The stock headers flow fine and most of the power in the exhaust are the pre-cats. These cars really would wake up with 15% deeper gearing.
I'd love to add around 20whp/wtq to my 987.2 Cayman base 6mt, but even in stock form, I'm pretty happy with it. It jumps off the line like an AWD car and is plenty quick for sub 100mph B road driving so as long as you keep the rpms above 4500rpms. Even though my car has "Sport" mode, the Sprint Booster makes a world of difference in the way the car responds and feels. I actually prefer to run with Sport mode off, the Sprint Booster at 5 in "Race", and PSM off (which really isn't fully off). I plan to do Carnewal 200 cell headers and a tune (if I can find one). I've managed to rip off 5.2 0-60s with my ob-board timer which is quite a bit quicker than Porsche says. 5.2 0-60s equate to lower 13 second 1/4 miles. That ain't bad for a 265hp/221tq 2,920lb car. I look at my Cayman as having more of the older Porsche performance recipe.
I'd love to add around 20whp/wtq to my 987.2 Cayman base 6mt, but even in stock form, I'm pretty happy with it. It jumps off the line like an AWD car and is plenty quick for sub 100mph B road driving so as long as you keep the rpms above 4500rpms. Even though my car has "Sport" mode, the Sprint Booster makes a world of difference in the way the car responds and feels. I actually prefer to run with Sport mode off, the Sprint Booster at 5 in "Race", and PSM off (which really isn't fully off). I plan to do Carnewal 200 cell headers and a tune (if I can find one). I've managed to rip off 5.2 0-60s with my ob-board timer which is quite a bit quicker than Porsche says. 5.2 0-60s equate to lower 13 second 1/4 miles. That ain't bad for a 265hp/221tq 2,920lb car. I look at my Cayman as having more of the older Porsche performance recipe.
I agree, it's pretty good as is. I like flogging it and I'm used to it - all my previous sports cars were lower hp and even lower torque. I have the Sprint Booster as well, but it's set pretty low in the normal mode. The only time I wish for a little more power is just driving it around town when I'm below 4k RPMs, or before the engine is up to temp and I cant rev it out. In the twisties when you can stay in the power band it really doesn't need anything else.
Definitely would be interested in your thoughts on the Carnewal headers and tune. I think Softronic offers a tune for the 2.9.
12-06-2023, 08:00 PM
#32
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Hello everyone, I want to preface this by saying I'm new to to porsche space, a lot of the things I say may be wrong, please feel free to correct me. I came from messing with 2jz's and SR20's, where parts and rebuild guides are readily availible. I am stumped when it comes to any information on the MA1 engine.
So just how realistic is stroking + boring a 2.9L base Cayman engine to a 4.0L? I can't find any stroker kits online, which means the crank, piston, and rods have to be individually sourced (unless you guys know where to find a kit), Can parts from other MA1 engines be used to make this work or custom parts have to be machined? Has anyone done this before?
I understand that all factory 4.0L MA1s from porsche are direct injection and their coolant/oil passages have been extensively redesigned since the 987.2 Cayman. Will I run into fuel/oil/coolant issues if I do make the 4.0L conversion?
I would also like to run fully forged internals, dry sump and electric water pump. Do you guys know where to source these or if they have to be custom desgined as well?
Note: budget is not an issue, I'm just curious about the feasibilty of the engine I just described.
Thanks!
So just how realistic is stroking + boring a 2.9L base Cayman engine to a 4.0L? I can't find any stroker kits online, which means the crank, piston, and rods have to be individually sourced (unless you guys know where to find a kit), Can parts from other MA1 engines be used to make this work or custom parts have to be machined? Has anyone done this before?
I understand that all factory 4.0L MA1s from porsche are direct injection and their coolant/oil passages have been extensively redesigned since the 987.2 Cayman. Will I run into fuel/oil/coolant issues if I do make the 4.0L conversion?
I would also like to run fully forged internals, dry sump and electric water pump. Do you guys know where to source these or if they have to be custom desgined as well?
Note: budget is not an issue, I'm just curious about the feasibilty of the engine I just described.
Thanks!
12-06-2023, 08:33 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Personally if DeMan says the 2.9 is junk, I’m not spending any money on it. Then again, I don’t agree with the fast car slow / slow car fast idea at all. You take your 350rwhp 2.9 Cayman, I’ll take my 350rwhp TPC turbo or 3.8 powered Cayman and we’ll go out and do identical 1:50 laps on our theoretical track. For me, the car that’s more driveable will be more fun. It’s possible that might be the smaller motor car, if so, I’ll believe it when I see it…
12-06-2023, 11:49 PM
#34
Shorter gears would be awesome! Doesn't seem like anyone offers that off the shelf for the 987. I would rather put money into that and leave the engine alone.
I agree, it's pretty good as is. I like flogging it and I'm used to it - all my previous sports cars were lower hp and even lower torque. I have the Sprint Booster as well, but it's set pretty low in the normal mode. The only time I wish for a little more power is just driving it around town when I'm below 4k RPMs, or before the engine is up to temp and I cant rev it out. In the twisties when you can stay in the power band it really doesn't need anything else.
Definitely would be interested in your thoughts on the Carnewal headers and tune. I think Softronic offers a tune for the 2.9.
I agree, it's pretty good as is. I like flogging it and I'm used to it - all my previous sports cars were lower hp and even lower torque. I have the Sprint Booster as well, but it's set pretty low in the normal mode. The only time I wish for a little more power is just driving it around town when I'm below 4k RPMs, or before the engine is up to temp and I cant rev it out. In the twisties when you can stay in the power band it really doesn't need anything else.
Definitely would be interested in your thoughts on the Carnewal headers and tune. I think Softronic offers a tune for the 2.9.
https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/cayman...ee151903ebdd2f
Last edited by Andres R.; 12-07-2023 at 12:27 AM.
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12-07-2023, 12:24 AM
#35
My car has headers and a softronic tune with 8K limiter, but stock mufflers at the moment. I’m going to have a custom true dual exhaust fabricated soon. 1 of 1 custom valved coilovers being installed soon as well. The car pulls until about ~6500-6800rpm or so. I don’t have a power target per se, I just want the engine to pull for another 1200-1500rpm. I suspect the catback may get me a few hundred rpm closer, I believe the stock units are fairly restrictive. Beyond that maybe some light head work is all I need. This engine deserves a lighter flywheel too. If there’s an option that doesn’t introduce too much chatter I’m going to do that too.
To me that would make a pretty special driving experience.
To me that would make a pretty special driving experience.
Last edited by Andres R.; 12-07-2023 at 12:29 AM.
12-07-2023, 01:37 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Shorter gears are available. KMP in the Netherlands have the best gear ratio options I’ve seen. I’ve spoken to Pascal a few times about importing the “Rally” gears. This and a LSD is also on my financially irresponsible wishlist
https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/cayman...ee151903ebdd2f
https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/cayman...ee151903ebdd2f
12-07-2023, 01:43 PM
#37
An ICE engine is an air-pump... AFM in.. power out... 3.4 3.6 3.8... 100 BHP/Litre do the math... displacement matters
One can bolt on all the fancy after-market equipment...(in your choice of color) but the engine will still only pump the same air...
My 987 Cayman is a great platform... GT3 front arms, Tarratt sways, custom Ohlins... but weak on HP... and 330 ain't doing it...
As the man said... "Speed costs money, son, how much ya got to spend?"
One can bolt on all the fancy after-market equipment...(in your choice of color) but the engine will still only pump the same air...
My 987 Cayman is a great platform... GT3 front arms, Tarratt sways, custom Ohlins... but weak on HP... and 330 ain't doing it...
As the man said... "Speed costs money, son, how much ya got to spend?"
12-07-2023, 02:29 PM
#38
That’s my understanding. It’s been a while since the last conversation with them but I seem to remember there’s a slight difference in a part for installation but nothing major. Might be wise to confirm compatibility with any of the shops installing shorter gearsets.
12-07-2023, 02:30 PM
#39
12-11-2023, 11:59 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
I track my 987.2 2.9L and agree I’d love to have a high rev 3.0L engine. I have installed Sport+ , DeCat headers, Carnewal R mufflers and maybe gained a few HP. Next steps are a Softronic tune and maybe IPD.
Has anyone installed an IPD on. 2.9L?
LN states that forged pistons are more prone than cast for bore scoring.
I wonder if the the 3.2 or 3.8 cams will go in a 2.9
All fhe track issues with 987 and 987.2 (far less) seem to be related to cooling whether it be oil, water, or PDK. All issues not seen in the 2.9 L engine. Maybe I just need to be happy with what I have.
Has anyone installed an IPD on. 2.9L?
LN states that forged pistons are more prone than cast for bore scoring.
I wonder if the the 3.2 or 3.8 cams will go in a 2.9
All fhe track issues with 987 and 987.2 (far less) seem to be related to cooling whether it be oil, water, or PDK. All issues not seen in the 2.9 L engine. Maybe I just need to be happy with what I have.
12-15-2023, 08:03 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
hi guys, i just purchased a manual 2010 Cayman S here with a DeMan 4.0L X51 build and tuned by Rick on 93 pump gas needless to say she's heaven to drive especially when the Sports button is on. I have never driven a base 2.9 and i am interested with the exprience for me to feel the difference. I am located in NJ bordering Philly so if you live near me feel free to PM and will set a date/time or maybe meet in a C&C in our area. Happy Motoring and safe holidays! Just got her State inspected for emission so it's time to install the race headers that came with it PO said will add 20+ hp and more noise, lol
Last edited by 2swoosh; 12-15-2023 at 08:14 AM. Reason: typos
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sectachrome (12-16-2023)
12-15-2023, 05:52 PM
#45
Yep wish I was closer too.
Well guys I don’t know if I’m moving forward with any head modifications anytime soon. From what I’m seeing the bottleneck includes the valves themselves, and upsizing them would likely require piston machining as well so they clear. I’m estimating at least $8000 for all the labor plus parts, and hoping it nets at least 25-30lb/ft and 40-50HP. If the engine ever needs to be dropped for a head gasket it would make more sense to do it at that time.
Well guys I don’t know if I’m moving forward with any head modifications anytime soon. From what I’m seeing the bottleneck includes the valves themselves, and upsizing them would likely require piston machining as well so they clear. I’m estimating at least $8000 for all the labor plus parts, and hoping it nets at least 25-30lb/ft and 40-50HP. If the engine ever needs to be dropped for a head gasket it would make more sense to do it at that time.
