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Just picked up my 987S with 67k miles on it. Was owned and driven by older gentleman. Had a PPI done Cheech at Renwerke in NY. He said the car was solid. The oil had about 2600 miles on it but it was approaching 2 years so I decided to change it myself. I did an Amsoil engine flush (idle for 12 minutes with flush in it) and then drained the oil. I replaced with Amsoil European 5w-40 Medium SAPS (MS).
I preserved the old oil filter and took it apart. Attached are the pictures from the oil filter. There are some very tiny metal flakes in there. Any cause for concern here? I've preserved the oil filter and it is sitting inside a protective bag in my garage. Anything I should be worried about based on the pictures?
Thanks! The largest of the metal I found Another angle, including two additional very small flakes
Just picked up my 987S with 67k miles on it. Was owned and driven by older gentleman. Had a PPI done Cheech at Renwerke in NY. He said the car was solid. The oil had about 2600 miles on it but it was approaching 2 years so I decided to change it myself. I did an Amsoil engine flush (idle for 12 minutes with flush in it) and then drained the oil. I replaced with Amsoil European 5w-40 Medium SAPS (MS).
I preserved the old oil filter and took it apart. Attached are the pictures from the oil filter. There are some very tiny metal flakes in there. Any cause for concern here? I've preserved the oil filter and it is sitting inside a protective bag in my garage. Anything I should be worried about based on the pictures?
Did the shop that conducted the pre-purchase inspection do a borescope evaluation of the cylinders? If so, did they provide you with the images?
What year 987? There is a big difference in what you need to be concerned about between the 987.1 (2004 - 2008) and 987.2 (2009 - 2012). A 987.1 has many more issues than the later cars.
To me, a very few flecks of metal like in your pictures aren't that concerning. But it would be worth sending an oil sample off to Blackstone after the next oil change if you want a pretty accurate analysis of what your engine's health is.
You should have that done if you're concerned. That would rule out if it's bore material.
Jake Raby will be releasing an upcoming series on Rennvision called "What's in my Oil?". It's a three-part series. You should become a member of that channel on YouTube.
What year 987? There is a big difference in what you need to be concerned about between the 987.1 (2004 - 2008) and 987.2 (2009 - 2012). A 987.1 has many more issues than the later cars.
To me, a very few flecks of metal like in your pictures aren't that concerning. But it would be worth sending an oil sample off to Blackstone after the next oil change if you want a pretty accurate analysis of what your engine's health is.
You should have that done if you're concerned. That would rule out if it's bore material.
Jake Raby will be releasing an upcoming series on Rennvision called "What's in my Oil?". It's a three-part series. You should become a member of that channel on YouTube.
It's not that I'm "concerned." I understand that a little bit of metal in the filter can be acceptable. Not everything has to mean the engine is ruined. I'm just asking for people's opinion based on the pictures I posted.
To me, I actually think the filter looks very clean, especially considering I flushed the engine. I've seen way worse on this site with tons of metal flake in the filter that looks like someone spilled glitter in the oil. Not the case here. And this car runs exceptionally well.
Also, borescoping won't give you a conclusive answer unless the scoring is at an advanced stage. So all borescoring does is either (1) confirm the existence of late stage scoring that can be diagnosed by hearing the piston slap against the cylinder or (2) give someone a false sense of security and cost them $800 in the process. As you might be able to tell, this ain't my first rodeo with cars. Thanks for the input tho.
What year 987? There is a big difference in what you need to be concerned about between the 987.1 (2004 - 2008) and 987.2 (2009 - 2012). A 987.1 has many more issues than the later cars.
To me, a very few flecks of metal like in your pictures aren't that concerning. But it would be worth sending an oil sample off to Blackstone after the next oil change if you want a pretty accurate analysis of what your engine's health is.
Thanks. Yeah I agree. I have Blackstone test kits and I will be sending a sample to them when I do the next change in about another 2500 miles. The reason I didn't do the sample this time is because I flushed the engine so my understanding is that the flush would have potentially compromised the test results.
The reason I didn't do the sample this time is because I flushed the engine so my understanding is that the flush would have potentially compromised the test results.
I think you are probably right. I didn't know the circumstances of the oil when I posted above.
It's not that I'm "concerned." I understand that a little bit of metal in the filter can be acceptable.
Getting any level of metal flakes in the filter media should be an area of concern. Unfortunately, the 3.4L M97.21 have been shown to be susceptible to cylinder bore scoring.
Originally Posted by haripin
Also, borescoping won't give you a conclusive answer unless the scoring is at an advanced stage.
Scoring begins with the loss of piston skirt material. Check and see if the flakes are ferromagnetic.
The most effective way is bore scoping from the oil sump. Many people just cut to the chase and scope bank#2 through the spark plug holes on usually cylinders 6 and 5. Easy DiY project.
Originally Posted by haripin
So all borescoring does is either (1) confirm the existence of late stage scoring that can be diagnosed by hearing the piston slap against the cylinder or (2) give someone a false sense of security and cost them $800 in the process. As you might be able to tell, this ain't my first rodeo with cars. Thanks for the input tho.
I disagree. Bore scoping will detect the severity of scoring from the early onset to the later stage of the problem. It's the most conclusive method to determining the health of M9X cylinders. Also, you can have scoring occurring to your cylinders and not have the tell-tale ticking noise associated with piston slap. You should measure oil consumption and definitely have a UOA. Look for fuel dilution in addition to elevated levels of aluminum and silicon. I really encourage you to drop the sump and inspect for any debris. While the sump is off, you can use a bore scope to examine the cylinders on bank#2.
I'm surprised the shop didn't conduct a bore scope evaluation since the problem is well-known with these engines.
Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 08-01-2021 at 01:57 AM.
As Jake Ruby has said many times, do oil analysis regularly so that you have a long term overview of changes which can indicate issues before they become catastrophic.
Getting any level of metal flakes in the filter media should be an area of concern. Unfortunately, the 3.4L M97.21 have been shown to be susceptible to cylinder bore scoring.
Scoring begins with the loss of piston skirt material. Check and see if the flakes are ferromagnetic.
The most effective way is bore scoping from the oil sump. Many people just cut to the chase and scope bank#2 through the spark plug holes on usually cylinders 6 and 5. Easy DiY project.
I disagree. Bore scoping will detect the severity of scoring from the early onset to the later stage of the problem. It's the most conclusive method to determining the health of M9X cylinders. Also, you can have scoring occurring to your cylinders and not have the tell-tale ticking noise associated with piston slap. You should measure oil consumption and definitely have a UOA. Look for fuel dilution in addition to elevated levels of aluminum and silicon. I really encourage you to drop the sump and inspect for any debris. While the sump is off, you can use a bore scope to examine the cylinders on bank#2.
I'm surprised the shop didn't conduct a bore scope evaluation since the problem is well-known with these engines.
Thanks, agree with what you're saying, in general. I thought hard about borescoping but ultimately decided against doing it for the reason I mentioned above. Also the shop I had the PPI done at is very very very reputable and they did not suggest/insist that I scope of cylinders. I will measure oil consumption for sure and will have Blackstone take a look at my oil in 2500 miles from now. Thus far, I've put about 800 miles on the car and it produces no soot, does not consume any oil, and sounds/drives excellent. I also went into the car having done extensive research/reading on the issues with this engine, so my focus now is just checking the engine as time goes on. I also adhere to strict warm-up protocol of not driving above 3K RPM for the first 10-12 minutes on a warm day until the oil has reached close to its thermal capacity. Then, I drive the car spiritedly for at least 20 minute trips in the higher RPM ranges to kick oil around the engine and lube things up.
I think you are probably right. I didn't know the circumstances of the oil when I posted above.
I typically do not flush my engines but I decided to do it on this one because the previous owner drove this car about 800 miles a year, so the car sat for a good chuck of time. The PO did take excellent care of the car but I'm a bit OCD and wanted to flush anything that may have been sitting in there and get some Amsoil Euro oil in there.
What's interesting is that I had to use about 8.5 QTS of oil after the flush. Based on the manual, this is more oil than specified -- 7.75 Liters (8.19 QTS) with a filter change. But I suspect the flush drained more oil than would typically have been drained on a regular oil change. Still, even with 8.5 QTS, I'm at the 3rd bar on the oil meter in the dash. I hesitate to put more oil in for fear of overfilling.
07-31-2021, 05:13 PM
Rate my oil filter (is it good or bad?)
