Originally Posted by tripedal

Hi All - I really should have posted a thread update months ago as I finally got everything fitted to the car at the end of April/early May. I installed:

Ohlins R&T Kit, with slightly downrated springs (60 N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear vs 70F/80R as the kit comes)
Droop limiters on the front struts removed to lengthen stroke/travel - gain approximately 15mm of stroke before bumpstop engagement, with plenty of room before any coil bind
Stock Ohlins valving, as the slightly softer springs are still within a decent range of the dampers as they come
Preload is set to 2mm all around as recommended by Ohlins.
15 clicks from full stiff, leaving 5 more clicks of adjustment to get it softer if I need it -- this is my default setup now, I would probably stiffen by 5-6 clicks for track if I did any (no plans at the moment)
Factory Cayman R alignment specs
All else is stock with suspension, and in good working order


This setup was suggested after a long discussion with my supplier - Barry Battle @ 3DM Motorsports. He does a ton of work with the BMW community and has in the last couple of years been doing a lot on Porsches. Currently the car sits at Cayman R height, I need to slightly lower the front (maybe 5mm) as my calculations on where to set the coilovers relative to how they came from the factory were a bit off since I am using slightly softer springs. The difference is minor but it bothers me enough lol.

After running various aftermarket suspensions on previous cars (various Bilstein dampers and different springs), and driving the cayman with its stock suspension for several months - I have to say the "Ohlins Magic" is real. It's really hard to describe, but basically the car feels stiffer but somehow more comfortable. You can tell the spring rate has gone up, but the way the suspension deals with bumps is quite impressive. And then once you start to push it's even more impressive, the composure is off the charts - was out for a drive in the hills with a buddy of mine who is NOT a car person by any stretch and knows little to nothing about this stuff. He commented from the passenger seat how "well settled" the car felt as we drove through broken/bumpy back roads.

I'm very happy I went with this setup - it was not cheap, but the car is basically how I want it now (aside from the small height issue which I will fix shortly). If you went one step softer on the springs and have the dampers re-valved to match these properly, it should meet most people's needs for a daily / weekend setup, but given the trash roads in my area (Toronto, Canada) the 60F/70R is not bad all.

I totally understand people wanting a set it and forget it setup - this was actually my preferred route but when I looked at pricing ($1500 is great if you can buy a full Cayman R setup for that) the difference was negligible for the Ohlins and I went for them knowing I will have some range of adjustability to set the car up how I want. Some pics attached of the current setup, my wheels/tires are Apex SM-10 19x9 ET50 front and 19x10 ET40 rear wrapped with Michelin PS4S 245/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rear.

Originally Posted by JCP911S

This is a great discussion.... sorry to be the guy who shows up late to the party, and tells the same lame joke, but just got a 987.1 S, and the PO put GT3 LCA, and Tarrett sways... so its 1/2 way there... after some runs at WGI, it definitely need shocks....
I've checked out the KW V3, but pretty much settled on the Ohlins R&T... car will be 80% track, but I drive it to the track, and an occasional run to the bagel shop, so it's not a race car, but I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of street-ability for better track performance.
I've got 9.5 and 10" OZ wheels with 245/295 MPSC2 for track, PO fitted the spacers, and they fit great... ride height is a bit high... not a big issue... I'll probably drop it about 20-30mm or so...
After a few hours on U-Tube, I decided replacing the rears is best left to a pro...but down here in Camelot, there are not any Porsche shops, so I want to be able to give the guy specific alignment specs.
Any suggestions would be welcomed....thanks

Originally Posted by tripedal

Quick Update:

I've been working with Barry Battle from 3DM Motorsports (it's where I bought the Ohlins R&T kit). Ohlins is behind on supply for the springs, so he suggested that he could swap in a set of equivalent (or custom) Swift springs. This is perfect because I can take the recommendation that Ohlins gave me to go with a 60 N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear as more of a "touring setup" without having to buy additional springs (these rates are what Ohlins Europe recommends, they did say Ohlins USA might recommend something different for North American applications).

In addition Barry was telling me about how most of the Ohlins kits that are more track focused have the internal droop limiters removed, and the R&T kits come with a small droop limiter built in. He said since I'm interested in running a slightly softer setup, that taking the droop limiters out would add an extra 10mm of compression stroke before contacting the bump stop - allowing for a better ride on rough roads. He is going to re-calculate the new height adjustments compared to factory so I can achieve what the R&T kit is meant to ride at from the factory without any fiddling around (20mm lower than stock, same as Cayman R).

Last but not least - I discussed spring rates with him for some time - he made an interesting point about most modern cars being designed to run on or very close to the bump stops (most new BMWs are like this, especially in the rear). This means the spring rates listed look "low" when compared to aftermarket upgrades, because by itself the spring is not that strong but the way those factory suspensions are designed, the bumpstop is adding a lot of effective spring rate to the mix since in most compressions the bump stop is engaged. Bump stops are not linear so on bigger compressions the total effective spring rate can be much higher than what a factory rate is listed at.

He made this point but qualified it saying he wasn't 100% sure about how the factory 987 is set up, but his gut feel was that this is the reason for why the Ohlins R&T kit springs have a spring rate that's double the factory suspension, but in actual fact it won't be "twice as stiff" because it won't be contacting the bump stop in most driving in a properly set up car.

Just thought that it was an interesting and logical point. I will keep this thread updated as I receive the parts and get the car going in the spring.

<Back to winter lockdown >

Originally Posted by jkoravos

Good info. I'm just starting my journey with a 987.2 base Boxster and suspension will certainly be along the path. What led to the selection of B8s plus H&R Sport?

Originally Posted by Atgani

Question, and excuse my ignorance in such matters, but how does removing a droop limiter (ie a component designed to reduce the damper rod's travel at full extension) increase the compression stroke from a static ride height ?
If you'd said that removing the internal bump stop (as opposed to the external rubber item) which is designed to limit the compression travel, and in turn protect the internal valving, that would make perfect sense, but suggesting that removing a droop limiter to increase the compression stroke sounds counter intuitive to me.

Originally Posted by tripedal

Great question and probably a poor explanation on my part. You're right if only the droop limiter is removed and nothing else changed, you won't get any more compression stroke (but you'll get more rebound stroke). What I did as per Barry's recommendation was to "shift" the factory measured settings "upwards" on the strut by 10mm. So leave the spring pre-load exactly the same, just shift the perches upwards by 10mm. The droop limiters allowed for 20mm of extra shaft length in full droop, so by scooting up the perches by 10mm I "halved" that 20mm and I thereby gain 10mm in compression and 10mm in rebound.

We were careful to calculate / ensure that by doing this I wasn't going to run into any coil bind issues (due to the extra 10mm of compression) and also ensure that given the amount of threads available on the shock body I'd still e able to achieve the ride height I wanted. Since I wasn't looking to slam the car anyway, I didn't need the full amount of ride adjustment the Ohlins came with under default settings.

I hope this explains it a bit more, effectively you're just moving the "resting" spot of the shock body in relation to the shaft, and thereby using more of the travel for compression than if you just removed the droop limiter and left as is (meaning all the extra travel goes to rebound stroke).

Originally Posted by Atgani

Thanks for responding, do please excuse the barrage of questions.
So as I understand it, you effectively increased the length between the perches, and as result gained 10mm more compression and rebound travel ? Did Barry also remove the internal droop limiters in all the dampers ?

What issues were you looking to address by carrying out these modifications ? The dampers inability to cope with large surface irregularities that the high speed compression settings/valving DFV should have coped with ? And that you felt should have been dealt with better by what are good quality dampers ?
Did the removal of the droop limiters and the adjustment to enable more stroke length completely address your issue/s ?
Are you now running stock external bumpstops, or have you modified them in any way ?

I ask as I've previously run some Ohlins 3 way adjustable, remote canister dampers on a 996 GT3. They were superb (once we'd established the optimal spring rates) and I recently experienced the Ohlins R & T dampers on a 987 Cayman.
The majority of the time, the ride was far, far superior to the stock non PASM suspension, but over large surface irregularities and poor repairs/joints in the highway, the ability of the damper's high speed compression to deal with such surfaces, was far worse than then OE dampers and springs, that being very harsh and jarring, and pretty much what you'd expect to feel if a damper had run out of travel and was relying on the internal bumpstop or the external bumpstop to deal with the compression. And definitely not what you'd expect from a damper whose manufacturer boasts of DFV technology specifically for this very scenario.

Originally Posted by tripedal

No bother at all! I'm by no means a suspension expert, learning along the way and trying to understand it myself. Some answers:
- Droop limiters were only removed from the front dampers, I think the rears didn't have them - or at least had them but were not removable? Not sure, would have to see a disassembled rear vs front to understand exactly why the rears were left alone, but I trust Barry.
- Yes, I moved the lower spring perch (and pre-load adjuster) further away from the height adjustment perch by 10mm, effectively "lengthening the shock body", rears I left alone
- This all came about after discussing my goals with Barry, told him the roads here are not so smooth, and this wasn't going to be a track rat so I wanted good suspension travel and good comfort. I went down one notch on springs and the damper modification was the second thing I changed. The theory was that by gaining 10mm of compression, that's 10mm extra before you hit the internal bumpstops. Many modern shocks end up riding very close to or on the bumpstops which effectively add to the spring rate when engaged. Idea was to stay off the bumpstops as much as possible to keep bigger impact harshness down, hence the suggestion by Barry. My 1 series BMW for example is constantly on the rear bump stops in factory config, Dinan makes modified upper shock mounts to provide an extra 10mm of stroke to help combat this
- No changes made to the bumpstops, the Ohlins coilovers are an "inverted" design and the bumpstops are all internal, not external
- I had no doubt about the DFV dampers dealing with bumps, it was really about keeping "effective spring rate" down and staying off the bump stops for most situations
- I didn't have the dampers on the car before, just the stock non-PASM suspension so I cant compare to say how the modifications changed the car's behaviour vs unmodified Ohlins. I can only say that I'm very happy with the way the car feels, it's a fantastic balance between performance and ride comfort

Overall I find the car deals with bumps (high speed or low speed) much better than the stock suspension - it's hard to describe, you can feel the spring rate is higher for sure, any large bump is going to be hard to soak up like a soft factory spring but overall it's more comfortable because the bump is dealt with immediately and secondary motions of the car are very quickly sorted out.

Originally Posted by Atgani

Thanks for your reply, it's good to see an alternative and considered approach to suspension modifications, it sounds like your requirements for decent compliance and travel have been met, and then some.

The car I drove had the softer 229lb (40N/mm) front springs fitted along with 343 lb (60N/mm rears), and was running 6mm lower than Cayman R front ride heights. It sounds like these may have been the root cause of the crashiness/harshness, along with the droop limiter remaining in place further reducing the available damper stroke.

Your ride heights look to be slightly (5-10mm ?) lower than those of the Cayman R ?

Originally Posted by tripedal

Interesting - in the car you drove do you know if the Ohlins were re-valved to match the softer springs (sorry if you mentioned that already). Conventional wisdom (from Barry and others like Arcflash) suggested that you can go about 10% different on the spring rates without re-valving, any more than that you really should re-valve the dampers to match.

For ride heights, I think in the rear I am right at Cayman R height (it measured approx 20mm lower than my stock suspension, maybe 25mm). The front is actually a bit higher than the rear, so it's probably at Cayman R height. I haven't been able to get around to equalizing the height front to back and a re-alignment, will do so relatively soon. One thing to note is that I'm running slightly thicker sidewalls than factory size, that would contribute to it looking visually "lower" as the extra sidewall takes away from the "wheel gap". I'm running 245/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rear vs factory Cayman R which is 235/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear.

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

Great discussion for our cars. I have a 2010 base Cayman and I have had 3 sets of wheels on the car. Stock 17’s, 18’s and now 19’s. ALL have been on stock suspension but I recently changed to Bilstein B8’s w/ H&R Sport springs all around and Cayman R alignment minus sway bar. This is BY FAR the best my car has felt in over 6 years of ownership. I would not go back to ANY other setup BAR NONE. The ride is truly sports car quality now without compromise and without being jarring or harsh. Turn in is more immediate and understeer is so negligible now it’s almost totally non-existent. Just apparent enough to not kill one’s self. The car is on rails and that is saying a lot because these are great handling cars from a starting point. I’m actually mad it took 5.5 years of experimentation to get here but I’m here now thankfully.

Originally Posted by jkoravos

Good info. I'm just starting my journey with a 987.2 base Boxster and suspension will certainly be along the path. What led to the selection of B8s plus H&R Sport?