tripedal

Hello All,

I picked up a 2010 987.2 S 6-speed a few weeks ago - enjoying the car immensely so far. It is a non-PASM car, and the previous owner has some cheap aftermarket 19" wheels with aggressive offsets installed. The wheels I will be getting rid of, however the thing they have highlighted to me is how unsightly the "wheel gap" is on a non-PASM car running 19" and aggressive offset wheels is. I'm not a "stance bro" by any stretch, but would like the car to sit a bit lower and look a bit more purposeful.

My first instinct was to just not screw around and go for Ohlins R&T coilovers - they are pricey but if there's one spot I don't want to skimp on it's suspension (I've played the game before on other cars, not again). I also read some posts from smarter-than-me people talking about being very careful in adjusting the ride height of a 987, and that it should not be lowered beyond a certain point. My ideal setup is a 20mm lowering --> basically getting things to Cayman R height and no lower. My questions are are:

1. What specifically are the problems with the 987 suspension geometry when considering going below 10-20mm if any? Are we talking about things like undesirable camber curves/toe changes or other alignment issues?
2. I'm looking for a streetable setup, with the occasional driver development day (nothing serious). I'd love to keep the factory comfort level or thereabouts (hence my move for the Ohlins). Any other options I should consider? I'm not looking for a spring only solution, would need to be a properly matched spring/damper set.
3. Stock camber is not adjustable as I understand it - what are people's thoughts on camber plates for the street? Again I don't want extra NVH and I haven't seen "fixed" camber plate solutions that are maintenance free etc. Are there major rubbing issues up front without camber? I'd be looking at running an 8.5" or 9" wheel at the front, with perhaps a 50 offset. Tires would be 235 or 245 not more at the front.

I apologize for asking everything at once, not looking for a huge list of answers just more guidance/starting points than anything so I can go off and do more research.

Appreciate any help, and I can't believe I waited so long to own a Porsche!!!! (Yes, there is no substitute!)

diverdog

Lowering a 987 too much compromises the roll center of the suspension. Stock camber is adjustable but very limited. Camber plates work well and on a lowered car can get you to -2.5 or a bit more. If you search Planet9 website you will find many threads on different coil over shocks and spring setups from X73 Porsche to multi adjustable race shocks.

kboustani

At the shop now.h&r lowering springs and they will do cayman r alignment.my cat is 987.2 cayman.

SeanPatrick31

Had you thought of just running the Cayman R suspension? Still available from Porsche and a somewhat decent value.

jscott82

I was always a big fan of pss9/10. Bilstien always had great support and rebuilds were cheap.

As far as camber, with these cars you push the bottom "out" with gt3 adjustable control arms, rather than pull the top "in" with camber plates.

86-951

This. Some after-market lower control arms allow the outer ball joint to be shimmed so the correct roll center can be recovered as the arm length is increased for additional -ve camber or the ride height is lowered via springs/coilovers, either of which can screw with the RC.

tripedal

Thanks - yes I thought about this, but I'd really like to be able to dial the ride in on the street so the lack of damping adjustability is a problem, and by default I've heard this setup rides a little rough?

tripedal

Thanks - understood on this - they do make camber plates so I guess they do also pull top "in"? I've been seeing the Tarret control arms referenced everywhere - what is your experience with impact harshness when upgrading to these arms? Are they solid bushigns? I did this to my 1 series (put in M3 control arms) and I wasn't happy with the degradation in impact harshness...

jscott82

I've only done the racecar so not much of a reference for NVH.

But for a street car I'd use the stock gt3 arms. Im pretty sure the GT3 inner half is a hard rubber bushing, so no degregation in NVH. The beauty of pushing the bottom out, is you get a wider track as well as camber.
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9eight7

It sounds like you have your mind made up on the Ohlins R&T which I say is a fantastic coilover. I have them myself and primarily use my car for track. I will also say that they are overkill if you only do 0-5 track days a year.

If you decide you need more camber, I would recommend the GT3 LCA with rubber bushings and stock ends. Monoballs, coilover, and camber plates can be very jarring when hitting speed bumps at 80... ask me how I know.

I do not recommend the camber plates because they have mono bushings and it definitely transmits more feel/impact into your back. They will also wear much faster on the street due to the bumps on the road.

As far as offsets go, check out apex racing’s website. They do a great breakdown on that.

tripedal

Thanks! I know what you mean by overkill - I messed around with various bilstein dampers and spring combos over the years on different cars (progressive, linear etc) and I just want a quality suspension. Spending that much cash on a 10+ year old car does seem nuts, but at least there seem to be consensus on quality and the resale market would be receptive to that if I were to move on in the future. I don't need height adjustability really, wish I could buy the DFV style dampers on their own and pair with the right springs to call it a day. I guess probably won't be much cheaper than the full coilovers anyway.....

Thanks for the info on the camber plates - I definitely know the feeling of hitting bumps at speed and the harshness induced by solid bushings, my 1 series is my daily driver and it's really annoying since I updated the LCAs. So if the consensus is the GT3 LCAs are still rubber and good for a street car that's what I would do and avoid camber plates. I will probably just do the coilover to start and see how I like the camber without LCAs....it's extra labour but I want to get the balance of handling and ride / streetability just right this time around....

9eight7

I'm not sure how much camber you're looking for, however lowering the ride height will change the geometry of your suspension often times allowing you to achieve more (-) camber than the stock ride height. Depending on how aggressive you want to go, you might be able to achieve that with just the coilovers. You'll want to talk to your shop about that. On the other hand, if they're already changing the coilovers, there isn't really extra labor to swap out the LCA so it would cost less, to install both at once, in the long run if you decide to do that in the future.

For reference, I have Ohlins R&T, Tarett LCA in front only, and camber plates. The rest is stock toe arms, sways, etc. I run -2.7 front and -2.4 rear. On my stock suspension with Tarett LCA in front, I was able to achieve -2.1 front and -1.8 rear.

MXA121

I don't believe buying Coilovers such as Ohlins Road and Track is overkill at all for a street car or "Cayman R" style driving. I am in the same boat, shopping suspension to improve ride quality. Track or not.
If you search on this forum, there is an overall positive image of the Ohlins setup. I am trying to decide between them and the KW V3s. On my S2000 track car, I had V3s then switched to Ohlins due to points/classing.
The V3 ride quality was superior in my example, but it wasn't a totally fair fight (I went higher spring rate on the Ohlins, reducing effective damping range). Still, I remember those V3s fondly.

When looking at spring rates, Ohlins does have higher rates than comparable KW V3s, especially in the front. This makes me think I may be happier with the KWs overall.
You might think with my experience with the KWs, double adjustability, and lighter rates would make it an easy decision, but....I'm still on the fence!

I prefer the design of the Ohlins for a few reasons:
(1) Aluminum construction compared to Steel
(2) Single adjuster on bottom of shock compared to adjusters on top and bottom (top is inaccessible without mods)
(3) Separate spring preload and height adjustment will allow for a more optimized setup.

The Bilsteins, while a proven setup, do not seem on the same level as Ohlins and KW for ride quality. This is based on anecdotal evidence only, no experience with them.
Part of me wants to just buy Cayman R suspension and go, but I can't stomach the price hike on them. 981 X73 is cheaper and includes sways. The Cayman R stuff used to be 1500, now 2300.

These guys chose the V3s for a customer build that I enjoyed reading: https://motoiq.com/project-porsche-9...gether-part-1/

tripedal

That's the thing - not looking for a specific camber amount - was only curious on options to add it later if I wanted. I understand I'll gain a bit of camber as the car lowers, I'm leaning towards Titan7 forged wheels and they have 9" ET48 wheels at the front - don't think I will need any camber to clear the fenders if I keep the ride height reasonable. Only looking for a 20mm drop from non-PASM/standard suspension - so basically a cayman R drop.

Thanks for the reference numbers around camber, it's great info.

tripedal

Great link and info! Yes - the single adjustability / ease of access is a big plus, I wouldn't know what to do with dual adjustability - it's a street vehicle after all and I won't be going after lap times so dual adjusters would be cool to play with but that's it. I'm surprised the Ohlins run stronger springs than the v3 - do you know the factory "non-PASM", "PASM", and "X73", and "Cayman R" spring rates are? That's a pretty wide ranging questions, would be great to compare what Ohlins is listing (70N/mm front, 80N/mm rear).