KW Coilover - Hello mouth guard!
11-15-2019, 12:31 PM
#16
RE71s have a very stiff sidewall - ask any installer about the challenges mounting and unmounting, even in a 19". Assuming you aren't tracking, I would replace with PS4s then sell the RE71s - there is always someone looking for them since they wear so quickly (but provide awesome grip on track).
Drive it for a bit on the new tires then have a shop adjust the coilovers if needed. You should not have to suffer a jarring ride, just needs a few inexpensive tweaks to get there.
Drive it for a bit on the new tires then have a shop adjust the coilovers if needed. You should not have to suffer a jarring ride, just needs a few inexpensive tweaks to get there.
Many thanks!!
11-15-2019, 02:04 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
As I recall, KW has recommended settings (compression and rebound F+R) as a starting point on the installation instructions, which are available on line. They also have a range for ride height, for which you may or may not be within currently. A good starting point for ride height is the maximum ride height setting, which would be lower than OEM most likely by 10 or 20mm (depends on the application). Ride height is adjusted by the treads and nut rings on the shock bodies--usually purple. All adjustments are made to be DIY. You can go softer from there if need be by opening up a little more compression (allowing more compression). The jarring you feel most likely is the resistance to compression (closed valve), and the lack of resistance to rebound (open valve).
11-15-2019, 05:19 PM
#18
The rebound settings can be adjusted on the top of the shock via a small allen screw.
You can't really mess anything up as long as you don't adjust to full soft/hard and drive the car (KW advises against driving using full soft/hard in their manual if I remember correctly.)
11-16-2019, 05:40 PM
#19
This.
I have KW v3s on my 987, and in the stiffer settings it can be jarring like you describe. However, if you adjust the to the softer side, it can be surprisingly compliant. You can definitely tell the difference adjusting by only a few clicks either way, so play around some and you'll probably be able to find a more reasonable setting.
I have KW v3s on my 987, and in the stiffer settings it can be jarring like you describe. However, if you adjust the to the softer side, it can be surprisingly compliant. You can definitely tell the difference adjusting by only a few clicks either way, so play around some and you'll probably be able to find a more reasonable setting.
Thank you - tires are Bridgestone R71Es (I think) and fairly new. I don't need to upgrade right now, however, will probably go to PS4s when I do. I will look at your options when its time. Hopefully, I don't have to go to 18" wheels to make the ride tolerable - that's a last resort
If I were you I would do in this order as you already have one of the best road setups short of Ohlins but in my opinion the cost isn't worth upgrading to Ohlins - I wouldn't if I had KWv3....(I do have Onlins).
1. Adjust to softest setting and go from there. This will probably fix it.
2. Get softer springs.
3. Your tires are unusually stiff compared to pretty much everything. Michelin PSS will be a major comfort improvement.
This is the most logical trouble shooting/ "fix" for what to describe and also the order from least expensive. The other possible variable is that the shocks could be in need of a rebuild and if that's the case, it is worth it for these.
11-17-2019, 01:29 PM
#20
I just sent you a PM. As others mentioned, I would recommend increasing ride height and adjusting to a softer setting first before replacement. However, if you still want to trade then I can send you pics of all 4 before making a decision.
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soundaround (11-18-2019)
11-18-2019, 03:20 PM
#22
11-18-2019, 04:04 PM
#23
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I would not raise it. I would first adjust the shock to a softer setting. If you raise it you are affecting the alignment, and the balance. If softening the shock setting gives you a more compliant ride, take it to a shop to have it raised and corner balanced. Read up on corner balancing, and how ride height affects alignment before going in like a hack. Your goal is a softer ride, not an unbalanced suspension.
The strut, control arm and vertical from the control arm mount to the top of the strut make a triangle. if you shorten the strut, you changed the angle of the two not 90 deg angles, which changes your camber. That's the depth of my ability to explain.
https://www.elephantracing.com/tech-...orner-balance/
The strut, control arm and vertical from the control arm mount to the top of the strut make a triangle. if you shorten the strut, you changed the angle of the two not 90 deg angles, which changes your camber. That's the depth of my ability to explain.
https://www.elephantracing.com/tech-...orner-balance/
11-18-2019, 04:56 PM
#24
I would not raise it. I would first adjust the shock to a softer setting. If you raise it you are affecting the alignment, and the balance. If softening the shock setting gives you a more compliant ride, take it to a shop to have it raised and corner balanced. Read up on corner balancing, and how ride height affects alignment before going in like a hack. Your goal is a softer ride, not an unbalanced suspension.
The strut, control arm and vertical from the control arm mount to the top of the strut make a triangle. if you shorten the strut, you changed the angle of the two not 90 deg angles, which changes your camber. That's the depth of my ability to explain.
https://www.elephantracing.com/tech-...orner-balance/
The strut, control arm and vertical from the control arm mount to the top of the strut make a triangle. if you shorten the strut, you changed the angle of the two not 90 deg angles, which changes your camber. That's the depth of my ability to explain.
https://www.elephantracing.com/tech-...orner-balance/
Thank you!!
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Tom R. (11-18-2019)
11-20-2019, 02:18 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
As I recall, KW has recommended settings (compression and rebound F+R) as a starting point on the installation instructions, which are available on line. They also have a range for ride height, for which you may or may not be within currently. A good starting point for ride height is the maximum ride height setting, which would be lower than OEM most likely by 10 or 20mm (depends on the application). Ride height is adjusted by the treads and nut rings on the shock bodies--usually purple. All adjustments are made to be DIY. You can go softer from there if need be by opening up a little more compression (allowing more compression). The jarring you feel most likely is the resistance to compression (closed valve), and the lack of resistance to rebound (open valve).
Forgive me if this is elementary, my only point in the diatribe is that both adjustments to "full soft" may not get to the desired type of ride. That's okay, it's just a first try, right? If the KW's are easy enough to adjust, I'd cycle through more settings, if needed before changing any other items. It can be a bit of an iterative process, may require patience. My 2 cents on that.
The above assumes A) the car is at an appropriate ride height for the design of the shocks installed; B) the springs / shocks are matched for valving; and C) the bushings in the car are not compromised or replaced with full-on race bits (read no rubber). You'd be amazed how a pile of rubber bits that you could hold in two hands can effect NVH. Replacing stock bushings with a bunch of spherical bearings and such will transmit a bunch of vibration to you, the passenger.
Good luck with the adjustment, it makes sense that, with appropriate adjustment, you should be able to restore an acceptable ride.
11-20-2019, 02:47 PM
#26
My experience with double adjustable shocks / springs aligns with this. Usually, shocks are valved to match the spring rate selected. Theoreticaly, the midpoint for bump and rebound is somewhere near a decent starting point for the shock with that matched spring rate. It's best to think of shocks as dampers to motion, both bump (compression) and rebound (return from compression). The dampening of both is interactive and interrelated by it's nature.
Forgive me if this is elementary, my only point in the diatribe is that both adjustments to "full soft" may not get to the desired type of ride. That's okay, it's just a first try, right? If the KW's are easy enough to adjust, I'd cycle through more settings, if needed before changing any other items. It can be a bit of an iterative process, may require patience. My 2 cents on that.
The above assumes A) the car is at an appropriate ride height for the design of the shocks installed; B) the springs / shocks are matched for valving; and C) the bushings in the car are not compromised or replaced with full-on race bits (read no rubber). You'd be amazed how a pile of rubber bits that you could hold in two hands can effect NVH. Replacing stock bushings with a bunch of spherical bearings and such will transmit a bunch of vibration to you, the passenger.
Good luck with the adjustment, it makes sense that, with appropriate adjustment, you should be able to restore an acceptable ride.
Forgive me if this is elementary, my only point in the diatribe is that both adjustments to "full soft" may not get to the desired type of ride. That's okay, it's just a first try, right? If the KW's are easy enough to adjust, I'd cycle through more settings, if needed before changing any other items. It can be a bit of an iterative process, may require patience. My 2 cents on that.
The above assumes A) the car is at an appropriate ride height for the design of the shocks installed; B) the springs / shocks are matched for valving; and C) the bushings in the car are not compromised or replaced with full-on race bits (read no rubber). You'd be amazed how a pile of rubber bits that you could hold in two hands can effect NVH. Replacing stock bushings with a bunch of spherical bearings and such will transmit a bunch of vibration to you, the passenger.
Good luck with the adjustment, it makes sense that, with appropriate adjustment, you should be able to restore an acceptable ride.
I think these are installed pretty close to midrange so any advice on how to set without going full soft is appreciated. The car is too low, I think, so I’m going to raise it so it’s no lower than if it were set up with an X73 factory set (20mm lower than stock OEM). Then maybe set from midpoint halfway to full soft - try to be available to drive it before body panels go back in and if ok do a corner balance and alignment. If not happy try to get best advice before it leaves the shop.
advice?
11-20-2019, 03:12 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Hmm... Your approach seems entirely reasonable. I did not realize the KW adjustment as not readily accessible 
That's kinda a drag.
My LEDA's on the club race car were accessible with some contortion and a nomex arm sleeve
Hopefully you can quickly land on an acceptable setting in that process.
That's kinda a drag.My LEDA's on the club race car were accessible with some contortion and a nomex arm sleeve
Hopefully you can quickly land on an acceptable setting in that process.
11-20-2019, 04:04 PM
#28
Very helpful. Unfortunately, the KWs on the Cayman are a “bitch” to get at. I learned yesterday on the Cayman it’s all from the top so any time you adjust you have to break into the body panels, etc. just to get to it. So much for easy adjustability.
I think these are installed pretty close to midrange so any advice on how to set without going full soft is appreciated. The car is too low, I think, so I’m going to raise it so it’s no lower than if it were set up with an X73 factory set (20mm lower than stock OEM). Then maybe set from midpoint halfway to full soft - try to be available to drive it before body panels go back in and if ok do a corner balance and alignment. If not happy try to get best advice before it leaves the shop.
advice?
I think these are installed pretty close to midrange so any advice on how to set without going full soft is appreciated. The car is too low, I think, so I’m going to raise it so it’s no lower than if it were set up with an X73 factory set (20mm lower than stock OEM). Then maybe set from midpoint halfway to full soft - try to be available to drive it before body panels go back in and if ok do a corner balance and alignment. If not happy try to get best advice before it leaves the shop.
advice?
11-20-2019, 04:26 PM
#29
If they're similar to my v3s, the compression/bump setting *should* be on the bottom and accessible with the car jacked up off the ground, however the rebound setting is most likely located on top of the shock. I have the far right rebound adjuster on page 2, middle compression/bump adjuster on page 3 of this KW manual: https://www.carid.com/images/kw-susp...tup-manual.pdf
11-20-2019, 05:02 PM
#30
Well done sir!. Actually your solution was planned in this order 1. Check and make sure standard v3 springs were used 230/400 2. Adjust rebound and dampening to softest settings then drive the car for awhile. If happy, do nothing else as the suspension has already been tuned for the ride height it is. 3. If not happy, adjust ride height a little, corner balance and align. 4. If still not happy, seek softer springs - repeat. 5. If not happy, sell KW set and but x73 set.
Thank you!!
Thank you!!