Live Steam

Agree on all counts Henry. I really like the color. It's a bit different than my usual black, white, silver selections, though I did have a Tony Sopranos Tahoe for a few years Man the on ly thing that would keep me from buying that car is the plate frame. I had them plugged on my Z after moving here to PA. Here in PA there's no front plate. But I'll speak to the dealer about this.

Yeah Jim, the Sport Chrono would definitely complete that package for me. Not sure it's a deal breaker though. The plate frame thing is however. Jim I've been keeping an eye on the National CPO listings for a while. Also hunt online directly on dealers sites as their CPOs aren't always listed nationally from what I can tell.

Vented seats are nice. I have them in my truck.

Not sure about a Base being faster than my Z. Here it is earlier this Spring after coming back from the detailer. It's not quite stock though it's also not fully banged out. It has just enough tweaks to make it fun.




After moving here from NYC two years ago I needed to find a way to hide the holes in the bumper because of the dual plate issue in NY vs only a rear plate here in PA. The detailer used plastic plugs and painted them with matching paint. It's not offensive, though I would prefer a new to me car not need them.

John Ferguson

Yes, you would be wrong on 981s. Only the 981 GTS comes standard with PASM. You could select X73 as a no cost option on GTS orders but PASM is a more expensive option and in my opinion better. PASM sits 10mm lower than stock, X73 is another 10mm lower than PASM. PSE is my number one must have option, 981 GTS comes standard with PSE, S does not. GTS comes standard with Sport Chrono / Sport Plus, S does not. GTS also has an upgraded interior and a few more HP. Personally, I love the way you can transform the car from docile to serious by pressing a couple buttons.

My garage queen 981 BGTS has never had a single warranty claim. Some folks with non leather interior have had door panel warping issues that are expensive to fix.

Was a die hard manual fan but after test driving a few PDKs ordered my car with PDK. Faster and zero chance of overrevs. Test one with an open mind, in M mode it's like driving the fastest / best manual you ever drove except it doesn't require a clutch. PDK needs PTV imo, look for both. If you insist on a manual, insist on PPI with DME report to check for overrevs. Enjoy being slower than a comparable PDK.

garfunkle

A base is faster but its not exactly a fair comparison for a car 10 years newer at 2x the price point. The mid engine and trans along make up for the power defect on paper and then add in the weight and rest of the engineering....

Again - you may still want an S after driving them... I'm just recommending to drive one and drive the base before an S.

Live Steam

John thanks for the feedback. I've driven my brother in laws 911 with PDK. Fast but not engaging enough for me. I'm not going to be tracking or racing. Just want an open top, fun and quick weekender. But I'll give it another try and see if I can evolve lol

Hmm? Door panel warping? Are there specific years this was an issue? Is PTV available on the 981S?

Live Steam

Well these are the stock specs for both. Yes it's heavier, but a stock Z has a stronger power band than a base 981. As I said, my car isn't fully worked, but it's not stock. Never having on a dyno, I can't say exactly where it's at, but I suspect it somewhere around 305 - 310hp with a broader power band than stock. The suspension was fully replaced (lower/stiffer) and also uprev'd the ECU and opened up the intake and exhaust. I did all that when the car was new. An S has closer specs to my car and would be quicker because of the weight.

John Ferguson

Door panel warping

PTV was an option on base, S, and GTS, not standard on any trim. People who track extensively report PTV leads to premature rear brake pad wear. IMO it feels like the hand of god helping when it kicks in on corners and additionally includes positraction for lack of a better term.

Beautiful day here, going to uncover the queen and take wife for a top down ride. Good luck with your search.

57staff

A couple of additional points:

1) If you have a car with PASM I recommend looking at the TPC Racing DSC Module. In my limited experience with it, it totally transforms handling in the car.
2) One of the benefits that Sport Chrono gives you that people overlook is it expands the slips angles allowed before PSM/PTV kicks in. Meaning, you can hang out the rear end a bit more with Sport Chrono turned on.

saabin

A few notes:

I'm no 718 fan, but I can pretty much say that it's turbo lag is no worse than an 85 Saab. I've owned over 7 turbo Saabs, including an '85. Methinks you were in the wrong gear?

Anyway, I prefer the 981 with the 6, and I actually like driving it more than my 997TT. I really love the PDK and PSE. Yeah the 997TT has over 650ft/lbs of torque but there's something magical to driving a slower car fast..

I've had 1 of my door panels replaced under warranty, as well as both headlights due to very slight delamination.

Good luck in your search..

Live Steam

Even though I won't be tracking the car, that looks like a reasonable upgrade even for daily driving.

I think I found a GTS with a pretty complete package. Haven't checked to see if it's still available. Have work going on in the house that I wish would be done already.


You may be right about the Saab lag. Been 30 years since my fanny was in that seat. Sold it in '89 to buy the Toyota. I did enjoy driving that car though.

I know all car mfgs. have their issues with things, but the warping and delam issues you mention seem out of order for a car at this price point (new or used) and with the manufacturing heritage is has. Would these have already exhibited themselves in a car with some age? I mean they're not driver or milage related. I passed on a really sweet R8 convertible because of the research I did. Same with an F type. Jaguar dealer is 2 miles away and it's difficult to not look. But I don't need problems. Just looking for a spirited ragtop that's fun on backroad twisties.

In the mix is a Spyder that I can't take my eyes off of. Terrible problems to have.

garfunkle

A 400hp 991.1 does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and a 560hp Mustang GT does it in 4.7 seconds... the Mustang also has a ton more torque. Forget at useless specs.

Again - I'm not saying a base will be it but I am suggesting you drive one. Engine/transmission placement alone play a huge role. Tuned, modded, whatever... the base boxster will likely be faster to 60 and absolutely murder the Z on a track.

Live Steam

Well it's really not the point of this thread, but to be honest I didn't think the 718S was a quick as my 350 which is why I was very unimpressed. Maybe the lag gave me that impression. It just didn't feel quick. My Z is not 500+HP Mustang fast off of the line, but that 15 year old 350 knows how to get out of its own way right from the mash of the peddle. Lower and stiffer than stock by 1.5" with much more rubber on the road and breathing more freely, it can surprise.

It's a 986 vs a Z but here's the numbers. Link. Not exactly blowing the doors off of a stock Z that weighs 500lbs more.

manifold danger

So I know it isn't the point of the thread, but it has devolved at this point and some stories should be straightened out because things just don't add up.

A base 981 will be a little quicker than your 350Z, but probably not abundantly noticeable. Not sure where that link came from, but the improvements from 986 to 981 were dramatic. 986 vs 350Z is a fair comparison, which is a testament to what Nissan accomplished over a decade ago, but it is no contest to a 981. And one shouldn't expect it to be. A 981S though is not in the same ballpark. If you were to watch a 981S vs a 350Z in the 1/4 mile, the 981S would win by a couple bus lengths (over 1.5 seconds; 12.7 vs 14.3, based off R&T's numbers for each car). Extrapolate that out even further on a road course. Again, this is not to bash the 350z, great car for its time. But the 981 is a different category of performance, especially considering the Boxster shares virtually identical performance numbers with the Cayman but you can drop the top at the push of a button.

Now where it gets interesting is that you thought the 718 was slow. Say what you will about the noise, but one thing that has never been in question is the performance; the base 718 will give the 981 S all it can handle, in fact it's probably faster; 0-60 in 4.6 and 1/4 mile in 12.8 for a manual (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/). I believe these numbers match what can be done in a PDK-equipped 981, which is significantly advantageous over the manual. I've driven a base 718 and was amazed at the power and lack of significant turbo lag, and the steering and suspension felt much tighter and more precise.

Numbers from several sources and my personal experience suggest something is off if you say the 718 doesn't compare to your 350Z. Maybe you didn't open it up enough on your test drive? Or maybe you just don't like turbo lag in any form... because once that boost comes on (and it comes on quick, even in the 2.0-liter but especially in the 2.5), that car moves.

In any case, as has been discussed many times on this board, if engine noise is at all important to you then it's hard not to suggest a 981. But if performance is a priority, you should very deeply consider a 718 S or GTS (assuming budget isn't an issue because you say you're considering a Spyder). It has been proven to rival the 981 GT4.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/can-...t-on-ignition/

vbb

Feel is real. Numbers on a screen are objective, but the feel of the drive is subjective and more important unless you're racing for money. I don't know how or why the OP gets the feeling that a 718S wasn't as quick as his '04 350Z, but we can't argue with him about it. The point is he didn't feel that he was driving a car that is not just a little faster, but WAY faster than his Z. My suggestion would be that he absolutely drive a 981S because I'm afraid he may end up feeling disappointed and forget the whole notion of buying a Boxster. If he thought the performance of the 718S was meh... he's probably not going to love the 981 either.

To answer your what should you look for question, assuming you decide you want a Boxster afterall (seriously, you need to drive one first just to see if the shopping is even a worthwhile endeavor) the 981 has proven to be stout and reliable. Get a DME report to check for overrevs since you are looking at manuals, and get a sense of the maintenance that has been performed and what will be due in the near future. The cost of maintenance will be considerably more than your Z. Factor all of that into your price range.

The Z looks very nice. Well preserved and tastefully modded.

GT4John

Yeah...I found that observation odd as well. Love it or hate it or just 'meh' with it (I'm in the latter) I found the 718 to be a VERY fast car. I've driven the 718 Base and S at length and agree that everything except the engine noise...including handling...is a tiny step improved over 981. Just that damn noise that comes out the back that prevents me from being a fanboy.

But back to the topic...I don't really get how the OP found the 718 slow or laggy. I've experienced completely the opposite in the cars. But...I suppose...I haven't driven the OP's car. So who knows.

manifold danger

I disagree. We're not arguing with "feel", we're arguing with objective facts. We can't possess the OP's body and "make" him feel differently, but we can present facts and maybe give him enough evidence to convince him that maybe his perception was not as accurate as he may think... OR maybe he didn't actually apply an adequate amount of right pedal to get a sense of how fast the car actually is.

Plus, I've driven both cars and think the opposite. I've always felt the VQ 6s felt anemic until you wound them out a little. But the difference is there is no boost to build... so theoretically you could "wind out" a 718 but if it's not under adequate load it won't "feel" as fast.

PUT THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR BRO (in the right gear, of course).

Where I will tend to agree is the concept of bias. If he loves his car enough to where an objectively superior car "feels" inferior, then he should just keep his Z and pocket the cash.

Here's something you could spend it on, about the same price (but actually has a chance of appreciating):

https://www.rolex.com/watches/cosmog...6506-0001.html

On this topic, we are the same person. Agree 100%.