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Aha!! Brake feel: get a GT3 master cylinder. Makes an enormous improvement in feel. I did this on my '11 Boxster S.
If you go PCCB I imagine you'll still be unhappy due to the stock master cylinder feel.
As so many of the replies to the OP have said the stock Steel system is excellent. Pop in track pads (Pagid, PFC, etc), replace stock fluid with track fluid (ATE, Castrol, etc) be sure to bleed the system and you are more than good to go.
Having said all that if you're happy spending all the money on the PCCB for little or no objective improvement, then do so. You'll still need the track fluid.
My issues that day were both bite and feel. At real speed they weren’t near as linear nor did they offer the same feel as my PCCBs. They were a lot more work and I wasn’t able to set entry speed as good as I was with my PCCBs. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, i just think that I personally massively prefer the CCBs. My guess is that it’s probably $30-40k to do it. Pretty crazy costs.
Might be a different application here but, my '11 Cayman S was soft on brakes as the car was mostly street driven by the original owner. My first time on the track really "bedded in" the brakes, I believe, and stopping was much improved, along with a "solid feel" GT3 brake M/C. Additionally, there are Cayman R pads which I have not experienced...... No question that PCCB can really spoil you, like my RS but what's it worth ($$$$) to you have that improvement?
Better pads might approximate the “feel” of the PCCBs, I.e., more initial bite and better modulation. The downside will be the potential for brake squeal under low speed braking, and of course, brake dust.
I test drove a 2009 TT cab with PCCBs last summer and whoa - I had to learn quickly that in that car the brake bit FAST. In that car there was an appreciable difference. And I did have PCCBs in my 06 C2S - I referred to them as the "hands of God". Somewhere I read that they have something like 2200 HP of braking power. In that car they did "groan" in light rain for some reason. A little water decreased the tolerance and induced a harmonic?
Question: what Gen is the OP's Spyder? First (987.2) or Second (981). I believe the 981 brakes out of the CS are appreciably better than that the 987.2 which, IMO, does fall a bit short.
So I am considering at the next service of my 987.2 Spyder:
1. Swapping in a GT3 Master Cylinder
2. Castrol fluid change and
3. Some sort of Pagid pad. I don't want to get into squeals etc...
An it's interesting, I find when I am driving hard on PUBLIC roads I brake as little as possible in the 987.2 Spyder. The gear ratios are PERFECT in that car for spirited driving and slow the car down with gear changes.
To the OP, if you are looking for brake feel, then try the above mods first. I think there's some real gains to be made before you pony up for the big PCCB hit.
There's also a 6-piston caliper upgrade you could do. (removed because I forgot you are in a Spyder) Because your complaint is about "feel" it's hard to know whether that would solve your problem or not. But it's certainly cheaper to try before dropping the tens of thousands for the PCCBs.
Try these in this order:
Track pads, like Pagid Yellow RS29s or similar
Race fluid and flush, like Motul 600, 660 or similar
GT3 Master Cyl
If a base or S 981: 6 Piston Upgrade (which will mean you'll need to get a new set of larger front track pads, alas)
If none of these work then I'd go for PCCB. All of these together is probably around $3k, I'd guess.
I've done all of them except the GT3 master. The track pads are the a biggest difference in feel. They transform braking with more bite and power and make it much more confidence inspiring.
Last edited by conceptDawg; Oct 25, 2018 at 02:09 PM.
Reason: Forgot the OP was in a Spyder which already has 6-pistons, I think.
When I first got my car with pccbs I was a little disappointed tbh, they felt a little over boosted and grabby both on street and on track. Super powerful, so much brake, but I still wish they weren't quite as aggressive on initial application or maybe the pedal was firmer. But you get used to it. I can see how going back to irons would be tough.
i think you can def go with more aggressive pads that will give more initial bite but usually that comes with a higher optimal temp range and less bite cold. Pccbs are better hot but still aggressive when cold. Not sure if there's a pad that will do everything like pccbs do. Maybe there's a way to assemble a 380mm kit with GT3/4 calipers and surface transform rotors which are half the price of the OEM pccb rotors and you might still be able to squeeze under 19" wheels?
If you are going to go for PCCB's, I'd look into selling your car and buying a car equipped with PCCB from the factory. Probably the most cost effective way to make the switch.
If you are going to go for PCCB's, I'd look into selling your car and buying a car equipped with PCCB from the factory. Probably the most cost effective way to make the switch.
It has occurred to me, but I'd struggle to find a spec so close to perfect as the one I have and as low a mileage. There aren't many Spyders for sale and very few of those have PCCB. I'll likely just suck it up and live with what I have. I've toyed with swapping to a GT4, as there are more of them available with PCCB, but I really like the Spyder.
Have patience.... Once the 781 Spyder is formally announced the 981 Spyder market will become much more plentiful. There was an Agate car with PCCB's at the Colorado Springs dealership - lots of options.. Not sure if it sold?
i think I posted something like this before, but the mind wanders these days, so please bear with me...
Has anyone ever done a full iron to PCCB brake conversion using stock Porsche components and, if so how much did it cost you and what exactly had to be switched out and reprogrammed? Curious if master cylinders are different, software etc., or if it’s just rotors, pads and calipers.
i did a 500 mile loop on some of my favorite CA roads today in my Spyder and I was really pushing on some empty roads and being very heavy on the brakes. And all I can say is that I am not impressed at all by the stock iron setup when really driving hard. The difference between those and my Carrera S PCCB brakes when braking hard from speed (80-110) is huge. And it’s not just fade or pedal pressure required as some people argue, it’s simply slowing the car from high speed and the brake feel when doing it. The iron rotors fall short on both accounts. I love my Spyder but I want PCCBs so badly that I’m thinking about paying the nutty price to convert. Has anyone done it? I’m not interested in aftermarket, just Porsche components.
I own 997.1 TT and received a quote from Porsche of Melbourne, Fl. for a full PCCB conversion, including parts and labor.....$32K
Have patience.... Once the 781 Spyder is formally announced the 981 Spyder market will become much more plentiful.
Normally I'd agree, but not sure you will see the typical flood of old cars for sale upon the intro of the new car due to:
unusually high satisfaction rate among current 981 owners;
possible significant price increase for the 982 (probable if it turns out to be a GT car);
lack of the 4.0 in the 982 which many were hoping for; and
any change in the design focus of the 982 which makes it more track-oriented.
It will be interesting to see if many/most 981 owners end up hanging on to their cars. If my circle of Spyder friends is any indication, that will be the case.
From the little bit I've read of personal experiences with pccbs, I had perceived the notion that they were relatively short-lived if used on the track. I even got the feeling people were actively avoiding them on track cars,
Have I been misreading comments?
