982 GT4 Spyder?
02-06-2019, 02:28 PM
#1261
Spyder lite?
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...er-engine-gts/
For those wanting NA goodness w/power top, this may be your answer.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...er-engine-gts/
For those wanting NA goodness w/power top, this may be your answer.
Seems Porsche followed BMW down the rabbit hole with Bangle-esque styling, now it's copying their penchant for 50 variants of every model.
02-06-2019, 02:55 PM
#1262
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Perhaps it will be the “Touring” version of whatever the Spyder is with a manual top, LSD and other sporty goodies?
02-06-2019, 02:57 PM
#1264
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I seriously doubt it will be a new model... more a replacement. There is no room for it.
02-06-2019, 03:02 PM
#1265
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It’ll be following the 911 Turbo formula of larger displacement engine + the comfort/practicality amenities of the regular models.
02-06-2019, 04:22 PM
#1266
Three Wheelin'
02-06-2019, 04:23 PM
#1267
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From: https://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-mor...p-o-1658771171
It's as if somewhere along the way product planners, specifically Ze Germans, saw a Malcom Gladwell TED talk and blew a massive nut when they realized they could make a million variants of every platform. "It's like the pasta sauce!" they exclaimed.
. . . . If you make a sedan on a platform, and a wagon on a platform, why not make a crossover? Why not make a slightly sportier version of that crossover? Why not make a really sporty version of that crossover? Why not make a coupe version of that crossover? Why not make a slightly sporty version of that couple version of that crossover based on the sedan? Why not make a really sporty version of the slightly sporty version of that coupe version of that crossover based on the sedan?
If you think that's a joke check out the upcoming Mercedes lineup. Or better yet, why does Audi offer an A5 and an A7 Sportback given that the two models are barely different in size and difficult even for autojournalists to distinguish between?
Now a report by PwC, via Bloomberg, says that car companies are going to have to chill out within the next few years as investments are going to be aligned towards technology, as consumers find it hard to differentiate between models, and as they literally run out of space in stores to show the cars.
'Luxury-car models started multiplying in the ’90s, according to Ferdinand Dudenhoeffer, director of the Center for Automotive Research at the University of Duisburg-Essen. At the time, Volkswagen AG’s Audi offered about 10 different variants. Now, the world’s second-biggest luxury-car maker sells about 50, including the lookalike four-door A5 and A7 coupes. In the crossover segment, only 4.8 inches in length and about $1,100 separate BMW’s X6 and a 5-Series Gran Turismo.The effort is often wasted. The expense of stocking so many cars means most customers don’t get to see all the choices, said Detlef Kuhlmey, sales manager at Autohaus Kramm in Berlin, which sells vehicles from General Motors Co.’s Opel. Across town, Audi Zentrum Adlershof relies on touch screens to show what won’t fit in the dealership, said managing director Andre Reiser.'"
02-06-2019, 05:02 PM
#1268
Rennlist Member
It costs them basically nothing to create a new variant, so they have no incentive not to.
It would be different if they were competing against other brands for limited shelf space at a retailer, but with dedicated dealers and a large percentage of product being sold by custom factory order, it doesn't matter much.
It would be different if they were competing against other brands for limited shelf space at a retailer, but with dedicated dealers and a large percentage of product being sold by custom factory order, it doesn't matter much.
02-06-2019, 06:07 PM
#1269
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
It costs them basically nothing to create a new variant, so they have no incentive not to.
It would be different if they were competing against other brands for limited shelf space at a retailer, but with dedicated dealers and a large percentage of product being sold by custom factory order, it doesn't matter much.
It would be different if they were competing against other brands for limited shelf space at a retailer, but with dedicated dealers and a large percentage of product being sold by custom factory order, it doesn't matter much.
02-06-2019, 06:14 PM
#1270
Rennlist Member
I don't think that applies at the trim level, just the model level. If a lot of different cars with the same basic chassis structure are sold as a "911," then they only have to certify one 911 model. Likewise, I'm not sure if the 3.4L engine had to be certified for emissions in both the 981S and base 991.1 cars, for example, or the 3.8L engine in the Spyder and GT4 versus the 911S.
It would be interesting to know where the lines are actually drawn.
It would be interesting to know where the lines are actually drawn.
02-06-2019, 06:29 PM
#1271
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I don't think that applies at the trim level, just the model level. If a lot of different cars with the same basic chassis structure are sold as a "911," then they only have to certify one 911 model. Likewise, I'm not sure if the 3.4L engine had to be certified for emissions in both the 981S and base 991.1 cars, for example, or the 3.8L engine in the Spyder and GT4 versus the 911S.
It would be interesting to know where the lines are actually drawn.
It would be interesting to know where the lines are actually drawn.
02-06-2019, 10:20 PM
#1272
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This tidbit from from the MotorTrend article below, which states (based on a Car magazine source) that the next GT4 will be shedding 110 lbs., has me pondering if the next Spyder could see a similar weight savings over the 981, thus bringing the new car down to approx. 2,789 lbs.:
"Expect the new GT4 to be lighter than its predecessor, too. Car says the hardcore Porsche has dropped about 110 lbs thanks to lightweight materials, thinner glass, hollow-spoke wheels, and fewer driving aids."
From: https://www.motortrend.com/news/pors...urce=instagram
I've been of the opinion the 982 will likely be heavier than the 981, but I'd be happy to be wrong! Would love to see the Spyder shed a few pounds and buck the trend of weight creep seen in other Porsche models. A 110 lb. reduction is not insignificant. If this article is accurate with respect to the GT4, let's hope the Spyder shares the same "lightweight materials, thinner glass, hollow-spoke wheels, and fewer driving aids" of its hardtop cousin.
"Expect the new GT4 to be lighter than its predecessor, too. Car says the hardcore Porsche has dropped about 110 lbs thanks to lightweight materials, thinner glass, hollow-spoke wheels, and fewer driving aids."
From: https://www.motortrend.com/news/pors...urce=instagram
I've been of the opinion the 982 will likely be heavier than the 981, but I'd be happy to be wrong! Would love to see the Spyder shed a few pounds and buck the trend of weight creep seen in other Porsche models. A 110 lb. reduction is not insignificant. If this article is accurate with respect to the GT4, let's hope the Spyder shares the same "lightweight materials, thinner glass, hollow-spoke wheels, and fewer driving aids" of its hardtop cousin.
02-07-2019, 10:09 AM
#1273
It just makes no sense for Porsche to:
- add a Boxster trim between GTS and Spyder (or GT4 Spyder if that’s what the new Spyder is / is called). Not enough of a delta in specs or price, IMO
- if such a trim does happen and it has an NA flat 6, call it Boxster Turbo. Sure, maybe they’ll name the hot version of their electric Taycan “Turbo” despite none of them have a ICE, and maybe the hottest 911 is still called Turbo despite all series 911’s now having FI, but to call the one variant of a model withOUT a turbo “Turbo” would just seem dumb.
- offer a Touring spec to the Spyder that would delete the manual top and double bubble rear deck lid. Half the point of the Boxster Spyder is it’s beautiful unique styling, which is subtle and primarily cosmetic, not primarily a functional concession for track use like wing on a GT3. As a happy owner of both a GT3 Touring and a Boxster Spyder, I cant imagine being attracted to a Spyder Touring at all, and presumably I’d be the target market for it. If I was to want a Spyder without its unique soft top and beautiful styling for more DD use, Boxster GTS.
....which brings me to my preferred theory, if there really is going to be a Boxster variant other than the Spyder/GT4 that gets a flat 6 once more:
It’s the 982.2 Boxster S and GTS.
As many have said already, myself included, the 4-pot motor hasn’t been received well, though it could certainly still serve to power the base Boxster and Cayman. As for this being the next GTS, sure, but when has Porsche ever used a dramatically different motor in a GTS than in its S sibling? Never (well, except for the new Panamera GTS, which is very detuned version of the Panamera Turbo’s V8). The GTS is usually just a slightly higher tune of the S model’s motor combined with some otherwise available sportier options from the S model’s options list and a few minor cosmetic bits.
Whether Porsche will bring back a flat 6 NA motor to the Boxster/Cayman S/GTS is more of a question though. I think not, actually. I think that will remain the sole domain of the GT division moving forward. Rather, I think Porsche will put a version of the 3.0 flat 6 turbo motor from the base 991.2 911 into the 982.2 Boxster/Cayman S and GTS models. Perhaps it will be slightly detuned. Or perhaps it will be the same, because by the time it hits the market, Porsche will no longer be selling the 991.2 base 911 in favor of the 992 911 that will have a more powerful version of it, to keep a small distance between them.
Certainly if there has been any love for the new turbo motors in the 991.2 911, it has been for the one in the base 911, which may say sounds better and is more free revving.
Perhaps when they move the S/GTS upmarket to a 3.0 flat 6, they’ll also move the base up to a version of the 2.5L turbo 4 from the current S?
- add a Boxster trim between GTS and Spyder (or GT4 Spyder if that’s what the new Spyder is / is called). Not enough of a delta in specs or price, IMO
- if such a trim does happen and it has an NA flat 6, call it Boxster Turbo. Sure, maybe they’ll name the hot version of their electric Taycan “Turbo” despite none of them have a ICE, and maybe the hottest 911 is still called Turbo despite all series 911’s now having FI, but to call the one variant of a model withOUT a turbo “Turbo” would just seem dumb.
- offer a Touring spec to the Spyder that would delete the manual top and double bubble rear deck lid. Half the point of the Boxster Spyder is it’s beautiful unique styling, which is subtle and primarily cosmetic, not primarily a functional concession for track use like wing on a GT3. As a happy owner of both a GT3 Touring and a Boxster Spyder, I cant imagine being attracted to a Spyder Touring at all, and presumably I’d be the target market for it. If I was to want a Spyder without its unique soft top and beautiful styling for more DD use, Boxster GTS.
....which brings me to my preferred theory, if there really is going to be a Boxster variant other than the Spyder/GT4 that gets a flat 6 once more:
It’s the 982.2 Boxster S and GTS.
As many have said already, myself included, the 4-pot motor hasn’t been received well, though it could certainly still serve to power the base Boxster and Cayman. As for this being the next GTS, sure, but when has Porsche ever used a dramatically different motor in a GTS than in its S sibling? Never (well, except for the new Panamera GTS, which is very detuned version of the Panamera Turbo’s V8). The GTS is usually just a slightly higher tune of the S model’s motor combined with some otherwise available sportier options from the S model’s options list and a few minor cosmetic bits.
Whether Porsche will bring back a flat 6 NA motor to the Boxster/Cayman S/GTS is more of a question though. I think not, actually. I think that will remain the sole domain of the GT division moving forward. Rather, I think Porsche will put a version of the 3.0 flat 6 turbo motor from the base 991.2 911 into the 982.2 Boxster/Cayman S and GTS models. Perhaps it will be slightly detuned. Or perhaps it will be the same, because by the time it hits the market, Porsche will no longer be selling the 991.2 base 911 in favor of the 992 911 that will have a more powerful version of it, to keep a small distance between them.
Certainly if there has been any love for the new turbo motors in the 991.2 911, it has been for the one in the base 911, which may say sounds better and is more free revving.
Perhaps when they move the S/GTS upmarket to a 3.0 flat 6, they’ll also move the base up to a version of the 2.5L turbo 4 from the current S?
02-07-2019, 10:53 AM
#1274
I still prefer the way my NA delivers power for fun driving, but the turbo in my base 991 is simply exceptional. Responsive, revs fast, and sounds pretty darn good depending on the mode. The only thing that leaves me a little cold is it doesn't sound great at constant high revs. Sounds good getting there, but unlike the flat-six wail of my 981 GTS, it's not something you want to keep at 6,000 - 7,600 (which is technically fine given how much torque is available at lower RPMs).
02-07-2019, 02:18 PM
#1275
I still prefer the way my NA delivers power for fun driving, but the turbo in my base 991 is simply exceptional. Responsive, revs fast, and sounds pretty darn good depending on the mode. The only thing that leaves me a little cold is it doesn't sound great at constant high revs. Sounds good getting there, but unlike the flat-six wail of my 981 GTS, it's not something you want to keep at 6,000 - 7,600 (which is technically fine given how much torque is available at lower RPMs).
i did test drive a new 991.2 C4S manual and found it dull. As a former owner of several BMW daily drivers, it reminded me a lot of BMW’s current 3.0L straight 6 turbo in a typical 3-series. Good, smooth, torque-y, but ultimately not exciting.