PDK vs 6 speed
11-10-2013, 01:28 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
11-10-2013, 04:16 PM
#33
Frankly, I LOVE PDK! There, I said it...
I will NEVER go back. Wouldn't want to be without out it anymore than I would buy a car without ABS brakes (classics excepted of course).I don't like Tiptronic, never did. But, I must also admit that I underestimated it. I thought my 05 C4S Tip would never be any good on the track. My Instructor took me around Willow Springs in his 04 C4S Tip, and man was I wrong. That thing was an animal! Tons of fun!
I want my cars to do as many things as possible, and Porsche with PDK fits that bill. Drive it to work in heavy traffic, take it on vacation, go out to dinner at Maestros, or drive it to the track and race all day...it does it all, and it does it well. I am happy.
Here's a quote I ran across that seemed apropos for this thread...
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
Last edited by medtech; 11-10-2013 at 07:01 PM.
11-11-2013, 12:15 AM
#34
I've been a car owner for nearly 30 years and I've never owned an automatic. Here is my sign:
That said, my next car will likely be PDK. You simply can't fight technology.
That said, my next car will likely be PDK. You simply can't fight technology.
11-11-2013, 04:31 AM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have spoken to several high up Porsche ag and usa employees. The manual trans is certainly going away and very soon. Get em while you can. The Tiptronic and sports matic were lousy but these new PDK trans are truly great.
Maybe I'm old at 53 but shifting isn't that much fun or engaging anymore since the Ferrari F1 trans is so very good as are the newest PDK transmissions. If I'm racing I'm watching the line better and not having to worry about heel n toe matching revs and etc. I can shift as well as anyone. The general public is weak on manual transmissions even if they drive a manual.
The old Porsche pre G50 transmissions were terrible and some of the water cooled manuals were not that great either. I had 4 GT2 RS cars in the shop over the last several months and these are hard to shift and balky. Porsche insiders say they are sick of rebuilding GT3 and other manual transmissions from Porsche de racers and street guys that bang shifts, grind gears and mechanically over rev engines from missed shifts and demand porsche warranty work. You guys on this forum are GungHo and intelligent can u imagine what some jersey shore type leasee in a GT3 does to the manual trans ?
Can you imagine how many people bust up manual transmissions and blame it on the transmission because they don't care can't shift match revs and have the red mist on the street and race track.
Porsche sells I think over 80% PDK and therefore a single reliable unbreakable idiot proof transmission is the best choice for their business goals and objectives. We may not agree on manual versus enhanced f1 style manual matics but reality is approaching.
One reason I had not bought F1 trans on lambo and Ferrari cars is because they charged up to 10k more and I wanted to save money and was a manual die hard. I also new Tiptronic was beat and when I ordered a 2009 Porsche 997.2 Porsche wanted several thousand for PDK and I did not trust Porsche telling me PDK was great. I assumed it was an enhanced Tiptronic .
Get em while you can the writing is on the wall Porsche is phasing out manuals.
Get your self an old 930 4 speed it's a way back machine!
Maybe I'm old at 53 but shifting isn't that much fun or engaging anymore since the Ferrari F1 trans is so very good as are the newest PDK transmissions. If I'm racing I'm watching the line better and not having to worry about heel n toe matching revs and etc. I can shift as well as anyone. The general public is weak on manual transmissions even if they drive a manual.
The old Porsche pre G50 transmissions were terrible and some of the water cooled manuals were not that great either. I had 4 GT2 RS cars in the shop over the last several months and these are hard to shift and balky. Porsche insiders say they are sick of rebuilding GT3 and other manual transmissions from Porsche de racers and street guys that bang shifts, grind gears and mechanically over rev engines from missed shifts and demand porsche warranty work. You guys on this forum are GungHo and intelligent can u imagine what some jersey shore type leasee in a GT3 does to the manual trans ?
Can you imagine how many people bust up manual transmissions and blame it on the transmission because they don't care can't shift match revs and have the red mist on the street and race track.
Porsche sells I think over 80% PDK and therefore a single reliable unbreakable idiot proof transmission is the best choice for their business goals and objectives. We may not agree on manual versus enhanced f1 style manual matics but reality is approaching.
One reason I had not bought F1 trans on lambo and Ferrari cars is because they charged up to 10k more and I wanted to save money and was a manual die hard. I also new Tiptronic was beat and when I ordered a 2009 Porsche 997.2 Porsche wanted several thousand for PDK and I did not trust Porsche telling me PDK was great. I assumed it was an enhanced Tiptronic .
Get em while you can the writing is on the wall Porsche is phasing out manuals.
Get your self an old 930 4 speed it's a way back machine!
For pure fun manual is better and most people can never tell PDK performance advantage on the street - and they should not unless doing illegal drag race. It's a different story on the track. If you are out there to win race and shame your peers then get all the advantage - better chassis tuning and faster shift will help
11-11-2013, 06:20 AM
#37
11-11-2013, 08:53 AM
#38
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Very good feedback John. I am OP and my name is Mike
Yes, I have a 07 H2 Honda challenge civic and it is a blast to drive! These civic engine are build well and I redline almost every gear change and run without dry sump. Talking about fun, this car match BSR speed as shown below and brings a smile to your face on the track.
I test drove the Cayman S to see what PDK and 6 speed feel like in these new platform. The glaring deficit is power. If it has 50 extra hp it will be a blast regardless of tranny selection
little chase with mooty's BSR
my civic sandwich between sharks
Yes, I have a 07 H2 Honda challenge civic and it is a blast to drive! These civic engine are build well and I redline almost every gear change and run without dry sump. Talking about fun, this car match BSR speed as shown below and brings a smile to your face on the track.
I test drove the Cayman S to see what PDK and 6 speed feel like in these new platform. The glaring deficit is power. If it has 50 extra hp it will be a blast regardless of tranny selection
little chase with mooty's BSR
my civic sandwich between sharks
11-11-2013, 05:38 PM
#39
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
MOOTY HAS A BOXSTER SPEC RACER? And you have a Honda Challenge car? My respect for you guys just went up. I didn't think big time baller guys with 4.0L and Cup cars knew the importance of momentum car driving. I did the 25 hours of Thunderhill 5 years in a row and drove the first ever Boxster Spec Race; I was a big supporter of that category because I felt that people with Cup cars should have started in Miatas, but won't because it's a Mazda. I'm really jealous. I'm going to get on a plane and come out there the next time you guys go to Thunderhill. Here's some video from the 2008 race before the test day where we finished 3rd overall and 2nd in class.
mooty and I like to harass each other be it Cup or slow civic/BSR. Like you said slower car really make you a better drive because it force you to drive well and you can't rely on hp to bail you out
11-12-2013, 03:24 AM
#40
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
MOOTY HAS A BOXSTER SPEC RACER?
had two.
had two.
11-13-2013, 02:14 PM
#41
Many have probably seen this PDK-6sp. direct comparison, but there was some web talk that this PDK car
might be built lighter than the 6sp. resulting in some of the 1.6 sec. difference. After talking to Rick,
he made it very clear that he ballasted the PDK car to be equal to the 6sp. to make it meaningful. This outcome,
along with similar differences through PCA regions, is why the PCA is increasing the PDK penalty for 2014.
That said, personally still enjoy a 6sp more, but understand the draw of the PDK for those that prefer it.
Subjective choice, and now with more equal classing in 2014 PCA rules, no wrong answer.
might be built lighter than the 6sp. resulting in some of the 1.6 sec. difference. After talking to Rick,
he made it very clear that he ballasted the PDK car to be equal to the 6sp. to make it meaningful. This outcome,
along with similar differences through PCA regions, is why the PCA is increasing the PDK penalty for 2014.
That said, personally still enjoy a 6sp more, but understand the draw of the PDK for those that prefer it.
Subjective choice, and now with more equal classing in 2014 PCA rules, no wrong answer.
11-13-2013, 08:10 PM
#42
FROM ANOTHER POST OF MINE YESTERDAY, BUT ON TOPIC:
My 997.2 nonS manual is having its 40k service (ouch) and I got a loaner '14 Cayman PDK, base (275HP). All I can say is wow! I took it on a spirited drive on back-country roads, and even though the suspension is the non-Pasm, that chassis is amazing. The PDK is incredible too, which is the subject of this thread. On sport mode, it downshifted much earlier and downshifted later than on regular mode, as you all know. It did feel quite entertaining but I agree with others that the shifter needs to be reversed, upshift when pulling back, downshift when pushing forward. I think they are going to this on the new GT3. Yes, its vey fast but I still felt that I missed the manual tranny. On the switch back roads, it felt that it was somewhat difficult to tell in which gear it was, even though there is a visual reminder on the dash in betwn the tach and speedo. But you still had to take your eyes off the road for a split second. Maybe, that feeling would go away once you become more familiar with the PDK, since this is my first time on one of these. On my car with the manual, you can tell by feel and this somehow makes me more confident, your hand memory knows what gear you left it on. I mentioned how fast the PDK is, but also maybe because its a 2014 compared to the OP's 2009 first gen (or 2nd gen) PDK, I suppose that Porsche has continued to evolve this transmission. It goes through the gears so wonderfully fast without giving the impression that you are jumping from 1st to 4th. It felt right. Overall, I am impressed with the PDK. More so, I am impressed with the Cayman. I wonder how a PASM equipped Cayman would compare. That steel one was amazing, but it looks too SUV. Yet, it felt that it had a really good balance between compliance and stiffness. My 997.2 has the sport Pasm, so I am used to a stiffer suspension, but Porsche has continued to refined these chassis, very impressed. I also liked the car's size and shape. Its really good looking. Not so sure about the new 911's increase in size. I did miss having the back seats and had to leave the car home and use my spare suv to take my kids to the movies. My next car? I would seriously consider a Cayman S with a manual, and just a few options to keep the price in the high 60's low 70's. The base cayman with 275hp felt great (but a little low on torque), can't imagine the S with 325HP. No sunroof, I missed that since I use mine all the time. I don't know why they don't offer it, if you want wind in your hair, I guess they think you would get the boxster. But the 911 has a convertible and coupe with sunroof, so why not. A sunroof would be in my wish list for the Cayman, but that will not happen in this generation, bummer.
WELL, THAT WAS YESTERDAY. I PICKED UP MY 997.2 FROM DEALER LAST NIGHT AND RETURNED THE LOANER CAYMAN. CHASSIS-WISE, THE CAYMAN FELT MORE REFINED, BUMPS ON THE ROAD AND IMPERFECTIONS WHERE ABSORBED AMAZINGLY WELL. A LOT IM SURE HAS TO DO WITH IT BEING A NEW CAR WITH NEW TIRES, MINE ARE WORN TO 3MM ON WEAR BARS. THE CAYMAN ALSO FELT FLATTER ON CURVES, AND THIS WAS SURPRISING TO ME SINCE MINE HAS THE SPORT PASM WHICH I THINK HAS THICKER ROLL BARS. PDK, AMAZING BUT WAS GLAD TO BE BACK ON THE MANUAL 6 ON MY CARRERA, SO SMOOTH AND PRECISE. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I COULD TELL RIGHT AWAY HOW THE OLD HYDRAULIC STEERING COMPARED TO THE NEW ELECTRIC. THE OLD HYDRAULIC IS STILL MY CHOICE. ITS MORE COMMUNICATIVE AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT FEELS LIGHT. AT FIRST, THE CAYMAN'S STEERING FELT GOOD, BUT THEN I COULD TELL THAT IT WAS UNDERBOOSTED AT SPEED, THE OPPOSITE OF LIGHTNESS. I WONDER IF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION BECAUSE OF THE ENGINE ON THE 911 BEING EVEN FURTHER FROM THE FRONT WHEELS AS OPPOSED TO THE CAYMAN'S MID-ENGINE LAYOUT. SUPPOSEDLY, THE NEW GT3 HAS AN AMAZING STEERING FEEL THAT THE 991 HAS SOMEHOW LOST. I ALSO WAS GLAD TO HAVE THE EXTRA 70 HP. CHEERS!!
My 997.2 nonS manual is having its 40k service (ouch) and I got a loaner '14 Cayman PDK, base (275HP). All I can say is wow! I took it on a spirited drive on back-country roads, and even though the suspension is the non-Pasm, that chassis is amazing. The PDK is incredible too, which is the subject of this thread. On sport mode, it downshifted much earlier and downshifted later than on regular mode, as you all know. It did feel quite entertaining but I agree with others that the shifter needs to be reversed, upshift when pulling back, downshift when pushing forward. I think they are going to this on the new GT3. Yes, its vey fast but I still felt that I missed the manual tranny. On the switch back roads, it felt that it was somewhat difficult to tell in which gear it was, even though there is a visual reminder on the dash in betwn the tach and speedo. But you still had to take your eyes off the road for a split second. Maybe, that feeling would go away once you become more familiar with the PDK, since this is my first time on one of these. On my car with the manual, you can tell by feel and this somehow makes me more confident, your hand memory knows what gear you left it on. I mentioned how fast the PDK is, but also maybe because its a 2014 compared to the OP's 2009 first gen (or 2nd gen) PDK, I suppose that Porsche has continued to evolve this transmission. It goes through the gears so wonderfully fast without giving the impression that you are jumping from 1st to 4th. It felt right. Overall, I am impressed with the PDK. More so, I am impressed with the Cayman. I wonder how a PASM equipped Cayman would compare. That steel one was amazing, but it looks too SUV. Yet, it felt that it had a really good balance between compliance and stiffness. My 997.2 has the sport Pasm, so I am used to a stiffer suspension, but Porsche has continued to refined these chassis, very impressed. I also liked the car's size and shape. Its really good looking. Not so sure about the new 911's increase in size. I did miss having the back seats and had to leave the car home and use my spare suv to take my kids to the movies. My next car? I would seriously consider a Cayman S with a manual, and just a few options to keep the price in the high 60's low 70's. The base cayman with 275hp felt great (but a little low on torque), can't imagine the S with 325HP. No sunroof, I missed that since I use mine all the time. I don't know why they don't offer it, if you want wind in your hair, I guess they think you would get the boxster. But the 911 has a convertible and coupe with sunroof, so why not. A sunroof would be in my wish list for the Cayman, but that will not happen in this generation, bummer.
WELL, THAT WAS YESTERDAY. I PICKED UP MY 997.2 FROM DEALER LAST NIGHT AND RETURNED THE LOANER CAYMAN. CHASSIS-WISE, THE CAYMAN FELT MORE REFINED, BUMPS ON THE ROAD AND IMPERFECTIONS WHERE ABSORBED AMAZINGLY WELL. A LOT IM SURE HAS TO DO WITH IT BEING A NEW CAR WITH NEW TIRES, MINE ARE WORN TO 3MM ON WEAR BARS. THE CAYMAN ALSO FELT FLATTER ON CURVES, AND THIS WAS SURPRISING TO ME SINCE MINE HAS THE SPORT PASM WHICH I THINK HAS THICKER ROLL BARS. PDK, AMAZING BUT WAS GLAD TO BE BACK ON THE MANUAL 6 ON MY CARRERA, SO SMOOTH AND PRECISE. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I COULD TELL RIGHT AWAY HOW THE OLD HYDRAULIC STEERING COMPARED TO THE NEW ELECTRIC. THE OLD HYDRAULIC IS STILL MY CHOICE. ITS MORE COMMUNICATIVE AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT FEELS LIGHT. AT FIRST, THE CAYMAN'S STEERING FELT GOOD, BUT THEN I COULD TELL THAT IT WAS UNDERBOOSTED AT SPEED, THE OPPOSITE OF LIGHTNESS. I WONDER IF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION BECAUSE OF THE ENGINE ON THE 911 BEING EVEN FURTHER FROM THE FRONT WHEELS AS OPPOSED TO THE CAYMAN'S MID-ENGINE LAYOUT. SUPPOSEDLY, THE NEW GT3 HAS AN AMAZING STEERING FEEL THAT THE 991 HAS SOMEHOW LOST. I ALSO WAS GLAD TO HAVE THE EXTRA 70 HP. CHEERS!!
11-22-2013, 10:16 PM
#44
11-30-2013, 06:55 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Solana Beach, CA
Posts: 920
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i've driven a couple of the new pdk's while my current and last porsches are 6-speed manual, and i'll say that finally the pdk's are good enough and fast enough to have me considering one for my next car. once you hit that 'sport' button, the fun starts.
personally, here it is for me:
pdk pros: speed of shift; ease of shift; anyone can drive and enjoy the car; mpg
pdk cons: not as fun to drive; not as much feel while driving; complexity/higher repair costs?
manual pros: feel; i am more engaged as a driver because i personally tend to sight-see more often when i drive an automatic or something without a clutch pedal; not as many people can drive your car and therefore will not ask; saves mileage and damage. ( jk)
manual cons: shifts are not as quick; pain in the butt in traffic; less mpg; not everyone can drive it (in case of emergency)
i would imagine pdk's are much more expensive to repair or replace though. at least until they're on every car and the assemblies are much cheaper. anyone have data on that?
things i really want to know about them is weight difference between pdk and manual setups, reliability/durability between pdk and manual, as well as drivetrain loss between the two. i'm sure the data is out there. i just haven't seen it yet.
personally, here it is for me:
pdk pros: speed of shift; ease of shift; anyone can drive and enjoy the car; mpg
pdk cons: not as fun to drive; not as much feel while driving; complexity/higher repair costs?
manual pros: feel; i am more engaged as a driver because i personally tend to sight-see more often when i drive an automatic or something without a clutch pedal; not as many people can drive your car and therefore will not ask; saves mileage and damage. ( jk)
manual cons: shifts are not as quick; pain in the butt in traffic; less mpg; not everyone can drive it (in case of emergency)
i would imagine pdk's are much more expensive to repair or replace though. at least until they're on every car and the assemblies are much cheaper. anyone have data on that?
things i really want to know about them is weight difference between pdk and manual setups, reliability/durability between pdk and manual, as well as drivetrain loss between the two. i'm sure the data is out there. i just haven't seen it yet.