JBoxsterK

Correct Thread???

ir_fuel

And: Spyder = Pirelli P Zero. GT4 = Michelin Pilot Cup 2.

Should also make a difference I think.

w12jfd

I've done six track days in my Spyder using what I thought would be dreadful PZeros, but in reality they've been fine. Rear wear is high (two sets) - fronts very good - just one. Spyder comfortably outpaces GT4 on Cup2s despite thinner rubber. Bear in mind the vector over the Nurburgring is only 5 secs so on an average track would be nil.

Spyder Man

Great to hear. You must be one hack of a driver since the GT4 has the Cup2 tires + GT3 suspension + better brakes advantages over the Spyder...

s2ktaxi

after about a week of daily driving the Spyder, jumping back into the GT4 made the GT4's steering and suspension differences much more apparent. The GT4 steering and suspension is noticeably better "connected" and a more direct extension of the driver than the Spyder's. But the Spyder still sounds much better from the driver seat

w12jfd

I'm not sure I'm a great driver, however familiarity with the tracks and the Spyder's lower centre of gravity, plus the fact that it's very easy to control at the edge of adhesion, may give it a small advantage.

I have run against maybe eight or nine different GT4s and can say that there is definitely no difference in acceleration or braking performance.

s2ktaxi

Here's another observation - the GT4 clutch is a little heavier - not sure if the clutch is actually different or if the pedal is levered differently.

ir_fuel

Sorry, but that's just rubbish. The P Zero is not a high performance tire (that would be the P Zero Trofeo), so you are stating that a Spyder with street tires can "comfortably" outpace a track focussed GT4 on R-comps? That's purely driver related and has nothing to do with the cars themselves. And I didn't even mention the differences in suspension and aero.

The difference in acceleration and braking in straight line, on the same rubber (!!), will be very small indeed, as those 10hp only represent a 2% power difference between the 2 cars (and the spyder weighs less). Tires will be the limiting factor for braking as the Spyder brakes can stand some abuse too. GT4 ones will have better endurance though.

Archimedes

True on paper, but then how do you explain the small Ring time difference then? Most people argue that Cup2's are a second+ better than the typical street tire even on short track, and the Ring is 20+ miles.

I agree that the comfortably outpace comment is an overstatement though. I would expect that, in the same hands, the GT4 would slightly outpace the Spyder.

Miky702

Can you tell me whether their engine and exhaust noise are similar in tone with spyder just being louder, or they actually sound different while spyder still being louder? If so how are they different?

ir_fuel

The Ring isn't a "normal" track. The pavement has less grip, the surface isn't very smooth (never run it with PASM in Sport mode, too harsh) and the layout is quite particular. You need to take it to a modern race track to really compare the cars. For instance Spa Francorchamps, the Nuerburgring F1 track or COTA. Somewhere smooth, large and with grippy asphalt, so you can exploit the better suspension and tyres.

Otherwise it's just fanboy-ism, if you think that the difference between the GT4 suspension and the Spyder suspension hardly makes any difference, or the tyres (why bother producing Cup 2 if the MPSS is as fast), or the aero. Would be the same as saying that Porsche Motorsport doesn't know what they are doing, since a non motorsport product, tuned for maximum fun on the road, with the same powertrain is nearly as fast.

Underblu

I recall reading somewhere that the best GT4 time is 7:40 but I would imagine there have been more timed attempts made in the GT4 than the Spyder due to it's track focused nature.

Fast laps has the difference as 7:42 vs 7:49 for the GT4 vs Spyder http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

Still, the Spyder did well, particularly given the P Zeros which are not that great high performance tires. I'd gladly take the Super Sports over the Zeros. I'd imagine the cup 2s are probably worth a good 3 or 4 seconds of that difference.

s2ktaxi

hard to say for sure from the driver's seat. will need someone to listen from outside. now that I've noticed that the Spyder exhaust sounds different in PSE on mode depending on whether if Sport, Sport Plus or just PSE is engaged, I think Spyder Sport Plus is louder than the GT4's Sport mode. still more research needed.

Archimedes

I didn't say any of that, I merely said you can't argue with real numbers. Every thing else is just conjecture and, as you say, fanboy-ism. And you can't just wave away the Ring as if those times are not representative of a car's true capabilities, particularly the suspension and aero advantage of the GT4. I say again, if it's so big, how come the times were so close? And the Ring is probably far more representative of real world conditions than Spa or COTA.

w12jfd

Completed a Porsche Club GB track day on Sat and again had no problem running against GT4s - one had also had updated / modified front suspension and at best ran equal laps.

The driver felt that he needed more time to get used to the GT4 on the limit whilst I was happy to run at the limit and over all day. Perhaps the more forgiving nature of the Spyder allows for more speed - see Ring time for verification!

Predictably also makes the car more fun - not to mention having the roof off.

If I were to put Cup Twos on the GT4 wouldn't get close.