"Upgraded" Steering Feel?
#106
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ST
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Cayman Ed (08-15-2023)
#107
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I have been living with the GT3 calibration steering for ~10k miles now so I thought I’d provide some updates. To be honest I’m remembering less and less how the stock steering used to feel and have’t really had a reason to look back. The steering feels very natural to me and everything I said before about the steering weight loading up in relation to the grip/load across the front axle still rings true.
This weekend I took my car to Devil’s Highway, which is a remote road that passes through the White Mountains here in Arizona. It is the perfect proving ground to really exercise the updated steering. The road takes a bit over an hour to traverse (at speed) and has countless dips/crests, on/off-camber turns, damp/dry sections and vastly varying qualities of pavement. I had previously driven the road about a year ago with the same suspension set-up (Ohlins + rear sway bar) but before making changes to the steering software.
A few characteristics stood out to me during the drive this weekend:
As the quality of the pavement changed from smooth to rough and vice-versa it was very apparent that the steering has a lot more “texture” than before. It really dances in your hands in accordance to the surface of the road you’re driving on. I had previously observed that this effect seemed more subtle when I first updated to the GT3 steering software but I now realize I just have very smooth roads in the Phoenix area.
Living in the Phoenix area also means that I haven’t really had the chance to push the car in damp conditions since making the steering changes. But this weekend I felt it was very easy to explore the available grip in mixed conditions. Definitely much more confidence-inspiring in the wet than before, which is pretty useful when you’re driving on the side of a mountain.
One other thing that I thought I’d mention is that my chest was slightly sore this morning. This has been mentioned by others as well. The steering starts off lighter immediately off-center but you definitely have to exert more force once the steering is loaded compared to stock. Generally not a problem in 99% of scenarios but when you’re pushing for over an hour straight you can definitely start to feel it.
This weekend I took my car to Devil’s Highway, which is a remote road that passes through the White Mountains here in Arizona. It is the perfect proving ground to really exercise the updated steering. The road takes a bit over an hour to traverse (at speed) and has countless dips/crests, on/off-camber turns, damp/dry sections and vastly varying qualities of pavement. I had previously driven the road about a year ago with the same suspension set-up (Ohlins + rear sway bar) but before making changes to the steering software.
A few characteristics stood out to me during the drive this weekend:
As the quality of the pavement changed from smooth to rough and vice-versa it was very apparent that the steering has a lot more “texture” than before. It really dances in your hands in accordance to the surface of the road you’re driving on. I had previously observed that this effect seemed more subtle when I first updated to the GT3 steering software but I now realize I just have very smooth roads in the Phoenix area.
Living in the Phoenix area also means that I haven’t really had the chance to push the car in damp conditions since making the steering changes. But this weekend I felt it was very easy to explore the available grip in mixed conditions. Definitely much more confidence-inspiring in the wet than before, which is pretty useful when you’re driving on the side of a mountain.
One other thing that I thought I’d mention is that my chest was slightly sore this morning. This has been mentioned by others as well. The steering starts off lighter immediately off-center but you definitely have to exert more force once the steering is loaded compared to stock. Generally not a problem in 99% of scenarios but when you’re pushing for over an hour straight you can definitely start to feel it.
#108
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I have been living with the GT3 calibration steering for ~10k miles now so I thought I’d provide some updates. To be honest I’m remembering less and less how the stock steering used to feel and have’t really had a reason to look back. The steering feels very natural to me and everything I said before about the steering weight loading up in relation to the grip/load across the front axle still rings true.
This weekend I took my car to Devil’s Highway, which is a remote road that passes through the White Mountains here in Arizona. It is the perfect proving ground to really exercise the updated steering. The road takes a bit over an hour to traverse (at speed) and has countless dips/crests, on/off-camber turns, damp/dry sections and vastly varying qualities of pavement. I had previously driven the road about a year ago with the same suspension set-up (Ohlins + rear sway bar) but before making changes to the steering software.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTk0q1l5who
A few characteristics stood out to me during the drive this weekend:
As the quality of the pavement changed from smooth to rough and vice-versa it was very apparent that the steering has a lot more “texture” than before. It really dances in your hands in accordance to the surface of the road you’re driving on. I had previously observed that this effect seemed more subtle when I first updated to the GT3 steering software but I now realize I just have very smooth roads in the Phoenix area.
Living in the Phoenix area also means that I haven’t really had the chance to push the car in damp conditions since making the steering changes. But this weekend I felt it was very easy to explore the available grip in mixed conditions. Definitely much more confidence-inspiring in the wet than before, which is pretty useful when you’re driving on the side of a mountain.
One other thing that I thought I’d mention is that my chest was slightly sore this morning. This has been mentioned by others as well. The steering starts off lighter immediately off-center but you definitely have to exert more force once the steering is loaded compared to stock. Generally not a problem in 99% of scenarios but when you’re pushing for over an hour straight you can definitely start to feel it.
This weekend I took my car to Devil’s Highway, which is a remote road that passes through the White Mountains here in Arizona. It is the perfect proving ground to really exercise the updated steering. The road takes a bit over an hour to traverse (at speed) and has countless dips/crests, on/off-camber turns, damp/dry sections and vastly varying qualities of pavement. I had previously driven the road about a year ago with the same suspension set-up (Ohlins + rear sway bar) but before making changes to the steering software.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTk0q1l5who
A few characteristics stood out to me during the drive this weekend:
As the quality of the pavement changed from smooth to rough and vice-versa it was very apparent that the steering has a lot more “texture” than before. It really dances in your hands in accordance to the surface of the road you’re driving on. I had previously observed that this effect seemed more subtle when I first updated to the GT3 steering software but I now realize I just have very smooth roads in the Phoenix area.
Living in the Phoenix area also means that I haven’t really had the chance to push the car in damp conditions since making the steering changes. But this weekend I felt it was very easy to explore the available grip in mixed conditions. Definitely much more confidence-inspiring in the wet than before, which is pretty useful when you’re driving on the side of a mountain.
One other thing that I thought I’d mention is that my chest was slightly sore this morning. This has been mentioned by others as well. The steering starts off lighter immediately off-center but you definitely have to exert more force once the steering is loaded compared to stock. Generally not a problem in 99% of scenarios but when you’re pushing for over an hour straight you can definitely start to feel it.
#109
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Nice feedback and I still agree with everything you are saying. The last part for sure came as a bit of a surprise and something i noticed as well. I've done a couple spirited hour long drives and definitely started noticing the extra effort that was required compared to stock and a little more fatigue.
#110
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Excellent thread/feedback thx 👍
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nhnguy12 (08-29-2023)
#111
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I have a PIWIS 3 and the coding options I have are different from what others are sharing in this thread with their PIWIS 2. While I have access to all the 911 options, there are variations. Specifically, I have GT3 Strasse (Street) and GT3 Cup options, and I am missing the 918 option.
When I first tried the GT3 Strasse file, I immediately felt the lightness on-center, even just pulling out of my garage. The change in the on-center feel was quite evident, more than I was expecting. I could also feel the steering resistance increasing during turns. However, it wasn't as big of a change compared to the on-center feel. Personally, I favored the tighter on-center feel of the stock file over the GT3 Strasse file, so I decided not to stick with it.
However, I then experimented with the GT3 Cup file. The on-center weight of this file is much closer to the stock file, all while maintaining a lot of the benefits of the GT3 Strasse file. To me, it seemed to combine the best of both worlds, so I plan on keeping this coding.
When I first tried the GT3 Strasse file, I immediately felt the lightness on-center, even just pulling out of my garage. The change in the on-center feel was quite evident, more than I was expecting. I could also feel the steering resistance increasing during turns. However, it wasn't as big of a change compared to the on-center feel. Personally, I favored the tighter on-center feel of the stock file over the GT3 Strasse file, so I decided not to stick with it.
However, I then experimented with the GT3 Cup file. The on-center weight of this file is much closer to the stock file, all while maintaining a lot of the benefits of the GT3 Strasse file. To me, it seemed to combine the best of both worlds, so I plan on keeping this coding.
#113
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Interesting. 2013 BS here, with PIWIS 3 I ONLY had the GT3 Cup option. My opinion is similar to yours. Feels similar to stock, but with feel and info dialed up and a more pronounced weight loading up in corners. I am happy with the change but was always curious what the street map felt like.
#114
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Many of these alternative steering "tunes" are for cars that have different corner weights, track widths, tire widths, steering geometries, etc. Why do you think Porsche chose to select the specific ratio profile, weight progression, and on-center attributes for the 981 S/GTS? How did they get it so wrong? Seems like those who have done it consider it transformative, and it's not like Porsche had to bend to comply with some regulatory crap like emissions, so what gives?
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
#115
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I agree. I have no doubt the calibration is “different” but I’m skeptical that it’s “better”.
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
991: "Horst! - install the new steering module! It says ‚Bosch‘ on the box!"
981 Boxster & Cayman: "Horst! - this time also remember to put in the CD that's in the Bosch box!"
991 GT3: "Horst! - this thing won't go on sale until the software works like it says on the Bosch box."
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#116
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I agree. I have no doubt the calibration is “different” but I’m skeptical that it’s “better”.
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
That is also why my speculation is that while Porsche could have used a version of the GT3 code in all cars, they didn't want to. The cars are marketed to different people and for different uses. Not everyone wants a car that has more feel, more resistance, more weight, more wriggling in your hands, and requires more effort. Porsche has a model to sell everyone based on their preferences. It's also a way to help them sell more cars by getting people to "upgrade" to different models. I am extremely happy that I no longer feel the need to "upgrade" to another model just to have better steering feel!
In a double blind test, yes I would pick whatever car had the GT3 calibration. I expect many others would too.
Last edited by AdrGTS; 08-31-2023 at 02:43 PM.
#117
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Preuniger admits (it‘s on video tape) that there was a lot of criticism of the new power steering technology. And he talks about the GT3 (and only the GT3), where countless tests and optimisation attempts were made. With positive results. So …
991: "Horst! - install the new steering module! It says ‚Bosch‘ on the box!"
981 Boxster & Cayman: "Horst! - this time also remember to put in the CD that's in the Bosch box!"
991 GT3: "Horst! - this thing won't go on sale until the software works like it says on the Bosch box."
991: "Horst! - install the new steering module! It says ‚Bosch‘ on the box!"
981 Boxster & Cayman: "Horst! - this time also remember to put in the CD that's in the Bosch box!"
991 GT3: "Horst! - this thing won't go on sale until the software works like it says on the Bosch box."
Sure, everything from an Elise (no power steering) to an M2 Competition (heavy, but numb). As far as Porsches I’ve driven a 996 and a 997 in addition to my 981. But, I can also say I work on the R&D side of the tire industry and have driven plenty of pre production prototypes so I am familiar with some of the things engineers are worried.
This is like copying an EQ file from an expensive sound system thinking it will make your cheaper speakers sound like the more expensive ones.
That is also why my speculation is that while Porsche could have used a version of the GT3 code in all cars, they didn't want to. The cars are marketed to different people and for different uses. Not everyone wants a car that has more feel, more resistance, more weight, more wriggling in your hands, and requires more effort. Porsche has a model to sell everyone based on their preferences. It's also a way to help them sell more cars by getting people to "upgrade" to different models. I am extremely happy that I no longer feel the need to "upgrade" to another model just to have better steering feel!
In a double blind test, yes I would pick whatever car had the GT3 calibration. I expect many others would too.
In a double blind test, yes I would pick whatever car had the GT3 calibration. I expect many others would too.
Last edited by DriverDaily; 08-31-2023 at 05:43 PM.
#118
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Sure, everything from an Elise (no power steering) to an M2 Competition (heavy, but numb). As far as Porsches I’ve driven a 996 and a 997 in addition to my 981. But, I can also say I work on the R&D side of the tire industry and have driven plenty of pre production prototypes so I am familiar with some of the things engineers are worried.
But you realize the calibration can’t change unsprung weight, offsets and scrub radius, different alignments, wider tires, stiffer bushings, weight distribution, and different geometry right? Those are all things that have a major influence on steering feel. Disable the power steering altogether and a GT3 will feel better than a 981 simply because of those differences.
This is like copying an EQ file from an expensive sound system thinking it will make your cheaper speakers sound like the more expensive ones.
I really doubt that. One of the first things I noticed was how the Cayman has more feedback and is quicker on center than my old M2, despite feeling lighter overall. Personally, I want *linear* steering feel where the weight loads up progressively as angle increases. I expect a curve designed for a car with wider tires but less weight over the front axle is probably less linear than the original.
Yes I understand what the calibration cannot change. It's worth pointing out again that nobody said this makes the car as good as a GT3, but it does get it closer. In my post I basically said it gets you 80% of the way to a GT3 with the differences being suspension, alignment, and tires. So I have always acknowledged there are differences between the cars and one will always be different and better IMO (GT3).
In your EQ example, if the high end system has superior EQ tuning, then even with your crap system you likely improved it. Even if only slightly, its still better.
I think instead of trying to disprove that this is beneficial or an improvement, maybe you should try it. It is easy to turn on and off so there is no harm in trying. Do a little R&D
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#119
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I agree. I have no doubt the calibration is “different” but I’m skeptical that it’s “better”.
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
In a double blind test, would people really choose a steering calibration for a car with less weight over the front axle, wider tires, stiffer bushings, etc. or a calibration designed for your car?
Last edited by nhnguy12; 08-31-2023 at 06:10 PM.
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#120
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Porsche felt the need to create different steering calibrations between the C2 991 and C4 991. Both of those are closer to the GT3 than the 981.
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Last edited by awasb; 09-01-2023 at 12:51 PM.