Apex Wheels

Keep in mind the compound and construction of street tires are not developed for repetitive lapping at the race track. Although they have a higher tread wear rating they are not necessarily going to handle the heat and abuse and go the distance you might expect.

It is hard to beat out NT01s when it comes to grip vs. longevity which is why 15? years later they are still relavent in motorsport. The Hankook RS-4s also match up well with what you are describing, but after being forced to run them for Lucky Dog races I am personally not a fan.

Here is a guide from GRM that may be helpful: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...-buyers-guide/

We are slowly adding tires to our offering for the convenience of our customers, and we include free mounting and road force balancing with all of our wheel & tire packages. At the moment we carry Nitto NT01, Michelin PS4S, PSS, PS2, PS Cup 2 240, and PS Cup 2. In 2022 we'll work on getting more 200 TW tires onboarded, aswell as some semi-slicks.

I'm with you Peter, however, much of this is subjective to the driver based on their experience and skill level behind the wheel, how often they go to the track, and their priorities and expectations. If a driver is used to running Hoosiers, Pirelli DHs, etc. then they wouldn't want a tire any less capable than the 200 TW tires you mentioned, and they certainly won't be shocked at the wear rate. If a driver is fairly casual about the sport and does not want to replace tires often, the 200 TW rating on these newer compounds can be a bit deceiving.

I'm not sure if OP faces wet conditions often, but I agree that should definitely be factored in.

- Ryan

mbintx

Thanks for the continued suggestions.

i have quite a bit of track experience, though mostly in track-prepped Miatas. Ran everything from Toyo T1s to RA1, plus Azenis and a few other 200 TW tires. Also ran several 200TW tires for 13 Lemons Races. So I’m used to running at 8-9/10ths.

In my GTS I plan to dial that back to 7-8/10ths. Not looking for that last .5 sec on a hot lap. Rather I am looking for a tire that will last for 8-10 DE days over the next 2 years or so. Drive to the track and back, 50 miles each way. Very low chance of using these tires in the rain.

dcharnet

"Assuming your OZ's are 8.5" up front, the 245 / 274 tire combo makes the most sense. 255 and 265 wide front tires are best supported by wider 9" front wheels."

I disagree that a 245 front track tire is faster than a 235 on an 8.5 " front wheel.

Tire width within the 245 spec varies, of course, but all things being equal, a 235 track tire on an 8.5 front wheel will be incrementally faster and safer on the track than a 245 tire on the same wheel. It will have less flex, more stability, less rim rotation, more communication, more predictability and less squirm under heavy dynamic loads. Bigger is absolutely not better under race stress if the tire is not optimally sized for the wheel. This of course applies equally to front and rear wheels and tires.

All of this is much less critical on the street.

For instance, on the track the optimal AO52 or Nitto NT-01 tire size for readily-available 8.5"and 10" front and rear 18" wheels is 235/ 265, not 245/ 275.

Measure the width of the tire. The goal should be to have it as close as possible to wheel width to minimize flex and lateral/ circular movement under track-level cornering and braking loads, all of which slow and destabilIze. And a bigger tire has more unsprung weight and aero drag, the latter an exponentially increasing negative factor above 100 mph. A bigger tire costs more. You lose, incrementally, in multiple dimensions if you do not carefully match tire and wheel size. On track, increments matter; or why do this?

Read MotoIQ, one of a small number of reliable sources for info on this commonly misunderstood topic.

Apex Wheels

We are on the same page in regards to the benefits and importance of sidewall support. There were mentions of running 255's up front, and while I like wider front tires on these cars to improve turn in and mitigate understeer, my point was that 8.5" OZs would not be the ideal wheel to support them.

Depending on the measurement of a specific tire compound, availability, and driver preference, I agree that 235 / 265 are also good way to go for 8.5" / 10" wheel widths.

- Ryan

Papamurphdog

Just finished 20 track days (>80 heat cycles) on my Nitto 01's and LOVE them. Yes, they are now "done" as far as "sticky" goes. Could still run them, but noticed enough fall off at Road Atlanta last weekend that I'm going to pop for a new set. They were slicks for the last 6 event days, and still enjoyable to drive, but definitely not a grippy as when newer. Still showing treadwear indents in some places, so still tread depth. but, with >80 heat cycles, probably time to move on. I'll post some photos over the weekend. [thanks for all your help Alex! Your wheels are awesome! 18" was the way to go)]

Papamurphdog

See my other post below... note: I have a tire trailer, so I don't have to drive the Nitto's on the street (way too noisy and heavy rain would be a problem), they are my "dry's only. While I would have had more grip in the last 4 or 5 track days if i had run new ones, I had plenty of grip and was still running 40's - 42's at Road Atlanta last weekend. A fresh set, would certainly be faster, but I still had a blast -- it's just DE, not running for money. Thus, I saved a TON of $$$ this season, and still had fun, and the tires still had enough life for safety's sake. P.S., I run the MP Super Sport as my street/wet set up. They are awesome in the wet. Buying a new set of Nitto's this week. Why mess with success? (Thought about the Nankang as a do hear good things, but no sizes for me in 18").

txbdan

NT01s are the best practice tire of all time. They're fast enough, wear like iron, and are very insensitive to temperature, pressure, heat cycles, tread depth, and life time in general. They give no ****s and just work. Really the only con is if you're driving to/from track, they are sketchy as **** in the rain.

If you want a faster street tire, the Yoko A052 is fastest, but they suffer a lot of tread squirm when new, are soft and mushy so feel pretty lousy, and wear quite quickly. They also overheat after 3-4 hard laps so they're best for a time trial situation. They also like a lot of wheel. They excellent in the wet as well. I run these for time trials currently.

I haven't run RT660s, but they seem to be almost as fast as Yokos on our cars (they can be faster than yokos on heavier or under-wheeled cars), but have better temperature tolerance and durability.

Knolly

Any thoughts on a good track tire if you're not as concerned about longevity?

I do three track days a year where I have open track for 8 hours. Currently on Pilot Sport 4S which gets greasy after a few laps, at which point I need to pull in and let the tires cool. I think NT01s would address this, but I was curious if there was a better tire if I wasn't as concerned about it lasting for a dozen track days.

Apex Wheels

What car? Also, what is your current suspension and alignment set up, and what are the sizes of the wheels you are using?

As previously mentioned, there are many factors like driver experience/skill, wheel specs, suspension/alignment, driver preference, etc. so it is best to know some of these details before giving a recommendation. At the moment tires are very difficult to come by, so availability may end up being the biggest factor.


- Ryan

Knolly

2014 Cayman S with 4.5L engine. Currently have Porsche X51 suspension, I'll have to try to dig up my previous alignment data. Currently I have 20 inch wheels but am expecting I'll have to grab some 18" wheels. As far as skill level, I do alright but just a hobbyist enjoying a track day. My main concern is just getting more track time moreso than all-out grip, but I only do three track days a year so as long as a set of tires lasts a 3-6 track days I'll be happy. I don't need track tires until May-ish next year so availability isn't too big of a concern since I can afford to be patient.

Apex Wheels

Awesome. You've got quite a bit of power on tap with the 4.5L, so a wider tire configuration would be advantageous. For an 18" setup, I would recommend the following wheel and tire configuration:

F: 18x9" ET46 - 265/35-18 Yokohama A052
R: 18x10.5" ET44 - 295/35-18 Yokohama A052

The Yokohama A052 is one of the newest and most popular 200TW Extreme Summer tires on the market, and is a very capable tire. They are faster than NT01s and handle wet conditions better, but they will wear at a much quicker rate (which you've already stated you are okay with). Nitto NT01 and Falken RT660 are also fantastic choices as mentioned throughout this thread, however, they are only offered in slimmer sizes which may not be a great match considering your 4.5L swap.

The 9" wheels and 265 tires up front are vital when running 295s or 305s out back to prevent understeer, and it is important to note that they will require a healthy amount of negative camber to fit properly under the front fenders. Adjustable camber plates and upgraded front lower control arms would be a great idea to ensure you have the adjustability you need.

Hard core track enthusiasts and racers with experience behind the wheel and this kind of power will also run Pirelli DH slicks in 265/645-18 front, 305/660-18 rear. With that said, that compound is overkill for your application.

- Ryan

Knolly

Thanks Ryan! Looking forward to the new line of forged wheels to order a set from you. Any dates on those yet? Any chance for a Rennlist group buy when they come out?

Apex Wheels

I'm going to explode if can't officially release the details of these new forged Porsche wheels soon! We were originally shooting to launch this past summer, but naturally COVID related issues threw us off trajectory a bit.

I hoping we can release the details the first week of November. We're right there so stay tuned!

- Ryan

amurph182

This year I ran yoko A052’s and NT-01s (on my awesome Apex wheels). AO52’s are definitely faster but wear REALLY fast. Worse than RE-71s for me, but definitely a faster tire. Great in the rain. NT-01’s were not as outright fast as the yokos, but I found them to be far more consistent and last a LOT longer. So now my weekend tire strategy is NT-01 as long as it’s dry, and I put the yoko’s on if it’s likely to rain. Even worn way down they still do really well in the wet as long as there isn’t a lot of standing water.

I really loved the Hankook RS-4s. I found them to be just as fast as the RE-71’s at my ability and they lasted for-f’ing-ever. In all honesty, I think that given the current tire availability situation the strategy really needs to be “what size(s) can I run on my wheels and which tires can I actually get my hands on that fit?” It’s DE, so who cares if a given tire is a bit slower than another one, or feels a little squishy, or whatever? Really, for me it’s more about finding out which tires to absolutely stay away from instead of which ones is best. At least until supply gets back to normal.

kisik

Reaching out to common wisdom since I am learning Cayman platform coming from 997:
1. With X73, I have found that putting less taller tires from the suggested list like 245/40-18 + 275/35/-18 placing a car even lower from stock tires (they are 26.5" + 27.3"). For instance, 275/35-18 is only 25.6" tall which is staggering 40mm less! Fronts with 245/40-18 are 20mm shorter! I am pretty sure it has some serious suspension impact including total inability street driving. I know I can find 265/40-18s with 26.3" but it is still more then 20mm shorter! Thoughts?? I could probably drive to track with even 20mm less clearance but some tracks in NE are very uneven so I am a bit nervous.
2. I have 911 "left over" rea rims 18X11 with ET51 which would fit to Cayman with 15mm spacer. Is it too much for track (in terms bearing impact or track widening)?