golfnutintib

First of all Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all forum members.

I recently received my 95 968 Coupe... had wanted a very well kept 944 or 968 for years, so am very very happy to have it. This car has 47k miles, and is very very clean. Base (non M030) suspension, with factory LSD. The gearbox and clutch was rebuilt by the prior owner so it shifts very well. Obviously, coming from modern 911s, Caymans and the like, driving the 968 takes a little getting used to...particularly the nature of the 3.0 4-pot mill. Nice, but obviously very very different than the usual PAG flat six.

A few observations, each followed by a question for long-time, knowledgeable 968 owners:

1. Stock exhaust note/engine note is VERY quiet. Has some character above 4k, but still IMO not fitting with the nature of the car. Question: what are good, currently available, proven options for getting a better engine note WITHOUT jeopardizing the car passing the infamous California smog test? I have found some fairly old threads of aftermarket catback suppliers but as far as I can tell only RS Barn is in the game now, correct?

2. I realize the 4 banger with 230 or so HP will never be a modern flat 6 in terms of output and feel but I would like to get a somewhat livelier throttle response and lower RPM pull if possible (once again without risking not passing California smog). Any words of advice on a mild ECU tune to get the car to feel a little peppier below 4k? Once again seems like RS Barn are the current go-to shop for this... are there other proven alternatives for a street car?

3. Driving around there is quite a bit of rattling/clanking coming from the rear hatch and sunroof areas. There are no leaks, just noises. I would like to quiet these. I have read that the rear hatch pins mounts/washers can be replaced which can quiet the clanky rear hatch noises - is this correct? What about noises from the sunroof assembly?

4. Driving the car on some canyon runs the car handles and corners beautifully, as one would expect from this chassis. IMO ride quality is good, definitely firm but acceptable. Would not want to go much stiffer. I would say, however, that the car does lean some through corners, so I am thinking about getting stiffer sway bars... any thoughts from forum members on this? I have read that factory M030 sways are a good upgrade but I don't know if these are still available. Or are there leading candidates in the aftermarket for the 968? Any other advice on the suspension would be appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

4kix66

Nice car. Any details on purchase info? Did it possibly come from NJ? It looks familiar to me. Where are you in Bay Area?

touareg

For Power Read this: http://www.wendler.info/Projekt_951/...airboxmods.pdf

No chip buy dyno proven HP to be found.

I also saw an article on a Chip shootout somewhere, http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/ca...ing-chips.aspx is what I have in mine and happy with it.

@4100k the VarioCam kicks in and gives you a little more boost. From what I have read, but not tested myself is the stock exhaust/cat is pretty well designed. If you open it up, you lose low end torque, but get more up high and vice versa if I recall. Consensus is leave the OEM cat in place (Helps with smooth torque all around), but mileage will vary for post cat.

Your car is a nice low mile example, but I have found removing dead weight to be the cheapest mods.

I have the Airbox Mod, Promax chip, B&B exhaust, aftermaket cat (I want the OEM back in), 12lbs or so battery, sparco CF seats, no rear seats, no spare wheel, etc. to lose weight. I am down about ~100lbs give or take.

I do notice a difference, but the 2 things on this car that help the most, keep it at 4k, and if you are in too high a gear and trying to accelerate, you are screwed, have to keep the stick in the right gate, and drive it in high revs.

On the track, for DE in the beginner runs, I found the car has more than enough for me It is just not as good in the straights as a 993.

I have CS springs and koni adjustable, ride is pretty good to me for the track, but I think the 17 inch wheels I have, have a little too much sidewall. You can go 18 but get a little more mass.

I would find out if your wheels are OEM or aftermarket, the aftermarket ones are a good 20lbs heavier all around I think.

PorscheG96

I don't like the RSB exhaust because it sits at a funny angle. You can have a custom cat-back exhaust built. Mine uses Magnaflow components [resonator, muffler, tip] and weighs about 25 lbs less than stock. Smog won't be affected unless you change out the cat - don't even do this. It will make passing smog a PITA.

I'll be selling my m030 sway bars soon because I recently bought a set of Tarett Engineering billet sway bars. I can probably have them available in Jan, otherwise I'd recommend KW V3 for your 968. They're perfect in pretty much every way.

I wouldn't start modifying the engine, just make sure that everything is in order. Ie, new air filter, clean MAF, new spark plugs, have injectors serviced, dist cap/rotor, verify cam timing, etc etc. If the engine is running well and once you get used to it, the engine is excellent. You might also consider a cylinder head rebuild down the road - that made a huge improvement to my 968 engine's performance.

touareg

I agree make sure the engine is in top shape, inspect the variocam, get belts done if not been done, all leaks taken care of on the front that will leak on the belts.

I had my injectors cleaned. I need to get a leak down and want to do a rebuild of some sort at some point.

Also being the paranoid sort, I replaced my fuel lines too.

I have 155k or so. Engine probably needs a refresh.

golfnutintib

Yes I am in the San Fran Bay area. Car's history as I understand is past residencies in FL and CO.

golfnutintib

Thanks for the advice.

Interested in your M030 sways when you are ready, just PM me.

Also interested in your impressions going from stock suspension components to your recommended KW V3's. Expensive upgrade to be sure, so I would appreciate understanding your impressions of how it improves ride/handling and also how you use your car. For me this will be a weekend driver canyon carver, not to be tracked. My incoming thinking is that on the 968 the handling is its greatest strength, so I will proceed with major suspension mods very cautiously.

PorscheG96

You're right, the 968 has a great chassis for a number of reasons, but it's not difficult to improve a 20 year old suspension. First of all, the shocks are either at or near the end of their life, but also the valving profiles have come a long way in 20 years. As a result, these cars were built for the street with very low roll stiffness...only 160# front coils! This results in excessive body roll, especially with so much weight up high [hatch glass, sunroof, battery, pop-up lights for example] and since you mentioned the body roll as an area to improve, I felt that down the road KW V3 is a great choice because they essentially double the 968 spring rates while offsetting much of that stiffness with more modern, compliant digressive and high-speed valving.

I see you have some GT3's in the stable, so for a quick comparison, 997.2 GT3 uses something like 300# front and 550# rear coil rates, so 2x front and 3x rear 968 spring rates. The GT3 rides a bit stiff on the street but would be a lot worse had the modern regressive valving with high-speed bypass not come along. PASM helps too, of course, but the KW V3 are fully adjustable for compression and rebound so you have the freedom to optimize for ride comfort or cornering performance. I recently sold Moton CS with racing springs and returned to the KW because my 968 will be used less for autocross and more on the weekends for casual driving. I think it's the perfect all-around 968 suspension. You can also lower the car a bit to lower CG and it looks better, too.

Enjoy your 968!

DM

I've just been through this. My 968 has only been in the garage about a year. It has 83k on it and when I got it I too was surprised at the amount of body roll. My first thought was to put sway bars on it.

I took it to Auto Edge (local shop that races / specializes in 968) and the owner of the shop took it for a drive. He told me to start with new shocks/struts and then decide if I needed the sway bars. I put in Koni Sports and have them set at the softest setting. They absolutely transformed the car (mine is a street car too, non-MO30 suspension). Sounds crazy but even lane changes are more nimble with the Koni's.

It does still have some body roll, and I may put on the bigger sway bars in a few years, but I could not be happier with the new shocks/struts from Paragon as my first step.

Jason @ Paragon Products

I always tell folks...shocks/struts are a win-win. You handle a normal maintenance item and improve the car at the same time.

touareg

Not to make this thread about me, but I am still learning suspension, this is what I have. My DE instructor (who drove a 996 GT3 in black runs) felt my car was soft. What should I do to make it a bit stiffer?

968 M030 sway bars front and rear, Bilstein double adjustable shocks in rear and Koni double adjustable struts up front with 968 Club Sport springs.

Solid Delrin bushings on all suspension arms.

Jason @ Paragon Products

I'm not familiar with a DA rear Bilstein shock...is it a coilover?

golfnutintib

I don't at all mind the threadjack - these boards exist for the benefit of all members. That being said, I would appreciate input on the third point of my original post... (already have gotten good feedback on the other points):

3. Driving around there is quite a bit of rattling/clanking coming from the rear hatch and sunroof areas. There are no leaks, just noises. I would like to quiet these. I have read that the rear hatch pins mounts/washers can be replaced which can quiet the clanky rear hatch noises - is this correct? What about noises from the sunroof assembly?

touareg

That is a good question, car is in storage, I will have to look at it or go through the records. This is what I was told by the PO, could be a typo?

Thanks!

touareg

I get plenty of squeaks, depending on the weather. There are glass separation concerns for the hatch, the sunroof arms could need adjusting too to hold the roof tighter.

First and easiest thing to check is nothing in the side saddle bag bucket spaces, and that the spare tire is tight, not just sitting in the bin, along with no loose things in there.

It has been so long (my first 944 was in 1998, but I do remember concerns with over adjusting the hatch pins (too tight a close) causing strain and hatch glass separation, but that could be my imagination.