Variocam - Sounds Like Crap
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Joined: Jun 2011
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From: San Jose, CA
Variocam - Sounds Like Crap
I've put her all back together after a very long and lengthy tensioner pad, chain, wp, seals, belts, etc.
This is what she sounds like:
Not Good.
I noticed when I rotated the engine over after installing the belts, the variocam mechanism moved up and down. I did not do this before the maintenance so I do not know if that is normal.
Here is me laboriously cranking her over becuase Im too lazy to pull the plugs, but you can see it moving. Is this normal?
Is this mechanism bouncing up and down causing that noise?
PLEASE HELP!
This is what she sounds like:
Not Good.
I noticed when I rotated the engine over after installing the belts, the variocam mechanism moved up and down. I did not do this before the maintenance so I do not know if that is normal.
Here is me laboriously cranking her over becuase Im too lazy to pull the plugs, but you can see it moving. Is this normal?
Is this mechanism bouncing up and down causing that noise?
PLEASE HELP!
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 364
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I can't really tell from the recording whether it's a rapping or a scraping. Check the inside of the camshaft cover, is it scored? Insufficient oil pressure to the tensioner can allow the chain to "slap" and scrape the crap out of the inside of the cover. It can slap rhythmically and sound like a rapping.
There was too much camera motion in the second video for me to tell what's going on.
There was too much camera motion in the second video for me to tell what's going on.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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From: San Jose, CA
Yes, that second video was crap. Here it is with a real camera:
You can clearly see it bouncing up and down.
Thanks again for any suggestions or recommendations. All gaskets and washers were replaced during the pad change.
You can clearly see it bouncing up and down.
Thanks again for any suggestions or recommendations. All gaskets and washers were replaced during the pad change.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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From: San Jose, CA
I suppose it sounds no different than these motors on youtube.
I just dont remember is clicking so much. I bought some Brad Penn 20w-50 to replace lord knows what is in there now. Maybe that will help things out a bit.
Really, how bad does this thing sound?
Jax
I just dont remember is clicking so much. I bought some Brad Penn 20w-50 to replace lord knows what is in there now. Maybe that will help things out a bit.
Really, how bad does this thing sound?
Jax
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,243
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From: Lafayette, CA
Yikes! Don't start this engine again before you do some serious investigation. I agree with Tama - it sounds like you chain is very loose, and smacking into your valve cover. Open it up and look for scoring. It doesn't sound like lifter clatter - my guess is that your variocam isn't getting pressurized for some reason.
OkRider
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From: Oklahoma
Not sure if I'm gonna be much help, but as it relates to my car, here goes. Before I did my cam chain, pads, seals and belts, my car had a bad lifter noise. It never went away till I had changed the oil. Due to the varnish, I am led to believe that the previous owner ran Dino oil and wasn't very concerned with regular oil changes. All of the bad lifter noises went away after a few seconds with new good oil. In my case it's M1 0w 40 and 5w50. Mine still clatters for a couple seconds or so if it has been sitting over a week. Now, I wonder if by rotating the crank if maybe a little oil pressure is being produced that is causing the variocam unit to move. Not sure what else could cause it. Wonder what it would look like if you pulled the coil wire off and crank it a little?
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From: San Jose, CA
Thanks for the advice. I took off the valve cover again for some investigations. There were no markings on the underside of the valvecover. I verified I had 7 chains links between the teeth by the casting marks. I removed the bolts for the variocam oil supply tube and removed the checkvalve and sprayed it with brake cleaner and re-wet it with oil. The o-ring is in place and the chamber was full of oil when I removed the check valve. I let the car warm up a bit so I could finish the cooling system. Once running for a while a bunch of oil started leaking out the front of the oil pan so now I get to re-seal that. I am going to change oil and filter and see if that improves anything.
Doug, my understanding is that oil pressurizes the variocam system, the solenoid moves a cylinder/valve thing that directs the oil in one of two directions. An unconnected solenoid the assembly is down, and activated solenoid causes the assembly to rise. Un-pressurized I think the assembly goes up and down *****-nilly (like mine above) as the intake cam is resisted by the valves.
Doug, my understanding is that oil pressurizes the variocam system, the solenoid moves a cylinder/valve thing that directs the oil in one of two directions. An unconnected solenoid the assembly is down, and activated solenoid causes the assembly to rise. Un-pressurized I think the assembly goes up and down *****-nilly (like mine above) as the intake cam is resisted by the valves.
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From: San Jose, CA
Just checked the PO's service records. Last two oil changes were with Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic 5w-30. Obviously a little thin for the 968. I also realized the WP I just replaced was only 3.5 years old / 20k miles . I wish I never touched it!
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Sounds like bad lifters to me. The bouncing up and down is normal with no oil pressure. If you're ever curious you can remove a cover retaining bolt near the tensioner and take a peek while it's running. Check the lifters by pressing down on them; If they push down easily replace them.
Last edited by car_slave; May 20, 2013 at 08:32 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,243
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From: Lafayette, CA
Yeah, I originally didn't think it sounded like lifters, but upon listening to the video again, I could be convinced that it could be lifters.
But the thing that bothers me is that the OP says he replaced the tensioner pads, chain, water pump, seals, and belts. Assuming the engine didn't make this racket before his work, it's logical to assume that the noise is somehow caused by something he touched (not trying to criticize the OP's mechanical skills - I've been through a similar thing after a massive project on my car), and he wouldn't have had to touch the lifters for the work he did. Pus, lifters don't go bad very often.
OP - you ended your opening sentence with "etc.", implying you did more work than what was in the rest of the sentence. Did you do any work on the bottom end? One thing that could explain your noise is a cracked oil pick-up tube, or a blocked or clogged screen. How is your oil pressure?
As I said, I wouldn't run this engine for any length of time until you do a lot more investigating. I think putting in some different oil and hoping it will cure your problem is not only a waste of time and money, but very dangerous. I would start it once, very briefly, watch the oil pressure gauge very carefully, and then turn it off right away and report back on what you found. Your symptoms, whether caused by an issue with the variocam or the lifters, could be explained by compromised oil flow to the head area, so hopefully the oil pressure gauge will give you a clue as to what might be going on.
But the thing that bothers me is that the OP says he replaced the tensioner pads, chain, water pump, seals, and belts. Assuming the engine didn't make this racket before his work, it's logical to assume that the noise is somehow caused by something he touched (not trying to criticize the OP's mechanical skills - I've been through a similar thing after a massive project on my car), and he wouldn't have had to touch the lifters for the work he did. Pus, lifters don't go bad very often.
OP - you ended your opening sentence with "etc.", implying you did more work than what was in the rest of the sentence. Did you do any work on the bottom end? One thing that could explain your noise is a cracked oil pick-up tube, or a blocked or clogged screen. How is your oil pressure?
As I said, I wouldn't run this engine for any length of time until you do a lot more investigating. I think putting in some different oil and hoping it will cure your problem is not only a waste of time and money, but very dangerous. I would start it once, very briefly, watch the oil pressure gauge very carefully, and then turn it off right away and report back on what you found. Your symptoms, whether caused by an issue with the variocam or the lifters, could be explained by compromised oil flow to the head area, so hopefully the oil pressure gauge will give you a clue as to what might be going on.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 339
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From: Talca, Chile
Did you take off the back cam cover cap? If so, did you replace the thin dowel-like plugs there?
I had a sound like that when starting my engine after sitting a while. I originally attributed it to a broken oil pickup-tube, but I found one of those plugs sitting in the oil pan when I pulled it.
You can see the plug on the intake cam side is missing in this photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23465100@N00/8326613320/
I had a sound like that when starting my engine after sitting a while. I originally attributed it to a broken oil pickup-tube, but I found one of those plugs sitting in the oil pan when I pulled it.
You can see the plug on the intake cam side is missing in this photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23465100@N00/8326613320/
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 28,707
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From: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
tow truck to a qualified tech would work well here.
why? because it appears you're closer to destroying this engine than actually driving the car with it.
sorry for being curt.
but, this story has a happy ending for pennies on the dollar.
why? because it appears you're closer to destroying this engine than actually driving the car with it.
sorry for being curt.
but, this story has a happy ending for pennies on the dollar.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 31
From: Lafayette, CA
Did you take off the back cam cover cap? If so, did you replace the thin dowel-like plugs there?
I had a sound like that when starting my engine after sitting a while. I originally attributed it to a broken oil pickup-tube, but I found one of those plugs sitting in the oil pan when I pulled it.
You can see the plug on the intake cam side is missing in this photo.
I had a sound like that when starting my engine after sitting a while. I originally attributed it to a broken oil pickup-tube, but I found one of those plugs sitting in the oil pan when I pulled it.
You can see the plug on the intake cam side is missing in this photo.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 31
From: Lafayette, CA
In MBardeen's picture, if you look at those openings behind each camshaft, you can see that the one on the left has a small-diameter tube inside of it, going from about 1:00 oclock to 7 oclock, and the one on the right is empty. Those little tubes plug some oil passages that are used on earlier engines for some purpose I can't remember. If they're not plugged, they will gush oil, reducing the pressure from where it needs to go.