Old vs. New Injectors?
11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
#31
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+1, for Carl.
He has done an excellent R+D and any findings should be his own, unless he wishes to share them.
Just throwing a bone here,
perhaps the reason that there are no sales , is that people find it difficult to spend around 5,000 usd
on 15-18 year old cars worth 8,000 -15,000, for this extra horsepower, to use it for the street. or occasional track where could be eaten for breakfast by well prepared 944 turbos in the same category
which have less weight and with more HP.Had the kit been around the 2,500 usd plus the cost of injectors it would have been a different story.
In Europe may be another story , with the present rate of the dollar to the euro, perhaps is a bargain to some people there.
the only advantage for the 968 with this particular set up appears to retain the A.C. which is good news for cars in hot climates.For others it does not mean anything.
It seems that a lot of us although enthousiastic that someone finally produced a kit to take over the 968
300 bhp, were put off by the high cost price of it. I am one and have 2nos 968 cars that i want more HP from them, but this cost is prohibitive.
Also putting extra 50 -to 100 hp depending how people measure it, on an engine with already 11 to 1 CR and marginal oil and watercooling capability, it means that you will be up for more add costs, such as bigger oil cooler and a TURBO radiator, especially if you are using the car in a hot climate.,
I guess there still is a quest for few more HP and new injectors may be the way to go once all the usual mods are done, or until someone produces a similar kit or another type (ITBs and bigger injectors perhaps?), which will increase the power without drilling a hole in the wallet.,and without the added anciliaries.
As far as the injectors is concerned, a quick research on the info provided earlier on this threat , will identify several compatible types with similar impedence , higher flow and better atomisation characteristics.Anything will work from 14 ohms and upwards, the drivers can take it, without separate resistors.300 usd for a new set of injectors which can yield more power, is not much.
incidentally according to the BOSCH dealer , std 1992 968, 01280155010 injectors have been phased out in 2002 being of obsolete design with some stock still available ,and sold to Porsche at a fraction of original price just to get rid of them, for reselling through their network still at the original PET price.
Nice!!
He has done an excellent R+D and any findings should be his own, unless he wishes to share them.
Just throwing a bone here,
perhaps the reason that there are no sales , is that people find it difficult to spend around 5,000 usd
on 15-18 year old cars worth 8,000 -15,000, for this extra horsepower, to use it for the street. or occasional track where could be eaten for breakfast by well prepared 944 turbos in the same category
which have less weight and with more HP.Had the kit been around the 2,500 usd plus the cost of injectors it would have been a different story.
In Europe may be another story , with the present rate of the dollar to the euro, perhaps is a bargain to some people there.
the only advantage for the 968 with this particular set up appears to retain the A.C. which is good news for cars in hot climates.For others it does not mean anything.
It seems that a lot of us although enthousiastic that someone finally produced a kit to take over the 968
300 bhp, were put off by the high cost price of it. I am one and have 2nos 968 cars that i want more HP from them, but this cost is prohibitive.
Also putting extra 50 -to 100 hp depending how people measure it, on an engine with already 11 to 1 CR and marginal oil and watercooling capability, it means that you will be up for more add costs, such as bigger oil cooler and a TURBO radiator, especially if you are using the car in a hot climate.,
I guess there still is a quest for few more HP and new injectors may be the way to go once all the usual mods are done, or until someone produces a similar kit or another type (ITBs and bigger injectors perhaps?), which will increase the power without drilling a hole in the wallet.,and without the added anciliaries.
As far as the injectors is concerned, a quick research on the info provided earlier on this threat , will identify several compatible types with similar impedence , higher flow and better atomisation characteristics.Anything will work from 14 ohms and upwards, the drivers can take it, without separate resistors.300 usd for a new set of injectors which can yield more power, is not much.
incidentally according to the BOSCH dealer , std 1992 968, 01280155010 injectors have been phased out in 2002 being of obsolete design with some stock still available ,and sold to Porsche at a fraction of original price just to get rid of them, for reselling through their network still at the original PET price.
Nice!!
11-20-2009, 04:47 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I called FuelInjectorConnection just now, giving them the 01280155010 Bosch # Savvas944 mentions above, and the 15.2 ohm impedance. Jon (voices the video) sent me straight to the same link mentioned in this thread:
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...od&productId=5
He says that these can deliver substantial additional fuel with an adjustable FPR, although there is also a (much) higher-flow model available, should one want to go that route. The guy at fuelinjectorconnection is friendly and happy to help.
$289.00 for a set of 8: I took the plunge and expect to sell the remaining 4 to someone I've been corresponding with here.
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...od&productId=5
He says that these can deliver substantial additional fuel with an adjustable FPR, although there is also a (much) higher-flow model available, should one want to go that route. The guy at fuelinjectorconnection is friendly and happy to help.
$289.00 for a set of 8: I took the plunge and expect to sell the remaining 4 to someone I've been corresponding with here.
Last edited by John Etnier; 11-20-2009 at 05:06 PM.
11-20-2009, 07:06 PM
#34
Instructor
not to be a party pooper, but why not just buy the injectors from Carl, and help support a site sponsor who is also a supporter of this community???
saving a but or two is great, but in today's world we need to support those who support our hobby.
my $0.02
saving a but or two is great, but in today's world we need to support those who support our hobby.
my $0.02
11-20-2009, 08:45 PM
#35
On the Radar
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Thats over 50% savings after selling the other set. Great work.
Why shell out more cash than needed.
IMHO, most would benefit from having their old injectors refurbished.
Good as new afterwards.
Why shell out more cash than needed.
IMHO, most would benefit from having their old injectors refurbished.
Good as new afterwards.
11-20-2009, 09:10 PM
#36
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11-21-2009, 09:31 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
lsinlv: I put a longish answer to your post here, and then deleted it. Quick precis:
Savvas: I'm sorry: have someone else who's already been in touch.
----------------------------------
PorscheDude1:
Good as new if everything goes right (apparently it sometimes doesn't, viz. Marren), but these new injectors work better. See video at top of thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfynoxL2RZI
- I'm broke
- I won't be buying a supercharger
- Carl's a grownup
- Pandora's Box
Savvas: I'm sorry: have someone else who's already been in touch.
----------------------------------
PorscheDude1:
IMHO, most would benefit from having their old injectors refurbished. Good as new afterwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfynoxL2RZI
Last edited by John Etnier; 11-21-2009 at 09:56 AM.
11-21-2009, 10:57 AM
#39
Team Owner
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Since i am stupid i will just ask the dumb question here... These are the correct injectors to have on the car in advance of Carl's Stage 2 kit ? They are the right ones to have done NOW ?
If so, i will have 4 injectors for sale by the Monday after thanksgiving, anyone who wants them should pm me.
I also have an extra, beautiful, OEM Porsche 997 Turbo shift **** [carbon fiber & silver] that I paid over 600 dollars for...
It's a very soild piece and would make a wonderful addition to your 968 ride instead of running that ugly OEM ****, [with a couple of modifications].
I bought 2 different styles so i could make a better decision as to which one i wanted and decided that i liked one a little bit more than the other.
Anyone who wants it can have it for two Benjamins plus 20 for express postage.
./
If so, i will have 4 injectors for sale by the Monday after thanksgiving, anyone who wants them should pm me.
I also have an extra, beautiful, OEM Porsche 997 Turbo shift **** [carbon fiber & silver] that I paid over 600 dollars for...
It's a very soild piece and would make a wonderful addition to your 968 ride instead of running that ugly OEM ****, [with a couple of modifications].
I bought 2 different styles so i could make a better decision as to which one i wanted and decided that i liked one a little bit more than the other.
Anyone who wants it can have it for two Benjamins plus 20 for express postage.
./
11-21-2009, 01:54 PM
#40
Race Car
Hey John, do you still have original injectors in your 968? It would be fun to read an update from you after you install the new injectors. Of course, I'm sure everyone would love to hear what your impressions are in terms of value and performance. 
11-21-2009, 03:00 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
odurandina: I don't think anyone knows what Carl is selling. If were considering a future supercharger install (and I really really wish I could), I'd definitely be sourcing injectors from his shop.
I have original, non-overhauled injectors in place. I did have had a Run-Rite cleaning done (2 summers ago?) and regularly use the Run-Rite Sledgehammer. Will report after the install, assuming I don't botch it! (I'll be using Scott's directions here and photo-documenting for a DIY pdf.)
I have original, non-overhauled injectors in place. I did have had a Run-Rite cleaning done (2 summers ago?) and regularly use the Run-Rite Sledgehammer. Will report after the install, assuming I don't botch it! (I'll be using Scott's directions here and photo-documenting for a DIY pdf.)
11-21-2009, 03:10 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
BTW: I was just at the FuelInjectorConnection site and found this, doubtless of use to anyone contemplating this install:
Anyone know how safely to flush the fuel line? Does removing the fuel pump fuse accomplish this?
Problems with injectors immediately after installation are almost always due to improper installation which can ruin the o-rings.
Because of the position of the fuel injectors in relation to the fuel rail, extreme care should be taken during installation so as not to damage the o-ring seals.
Always inspect the orings for damage before considering the injector itself to be defective.
Just prior to installation we recommend the use of Palmolive soap to lubricate the o-rings. Petroleum based products have chemicals that get absorbed in the o rings after a long period of time. The soap leaves no residue.
Use a rocking motion to install the oring in to the fuel rail and instake manifold. Never twist-in or "screw-in" the injector.
This may cause scoring or cutting of the oring.
We also recommend that the fuel lines and fuel rails be flushed prior to putting in new injectors. The contaminants in the lines can collect in the tiny filter inside the injector. This can cause problems down the road. Prior to installation inspect any inline fuel filter that may be dirty and cause contamination of the new parts.
If your vehicle has been stored or sat unstarted for more than several months there are many other safeguards you should take into account
before replacing fuel injectors and starting the engine. Consulting our tech dept. with any questions is advised.
Because of the position of the fuel injectors in relation to the fuel rail, extreme care should be taken during installation so as not to damage the o-ring seals.
Always inspect the orings for damage before considering the injector itself to be defective.
Just prior to installation we recommend the use of Palmolive soap to lubricate the o-rings. Petroleum based products have chemicals that get absorbed in the o rings after a long period of time. The soap leaves no residue.
Use a rocking motion to install the oring in to the fuel rail and instake manifold. Never twist-in or "screw-in" the injector.
This may cause scoring or cutting of the oring.
We also recommend that the fuel lines and fuel rails be flushed prior to putting in new injectors. The contaminants in the lines can collect in the tiny filter inside the injector. This can cause problems down the road. Prior to installation inspect any inline fuel filter that may be dirty and cause contamination of the new parts.
If your vehicle has been stored or sat unstarted for more than several months there are many other safeguards you should take into account
before replacing fuel injectors and starting the engine. Consulting our tech dept. with any questions is advised.
11-21-2009, 03:38 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
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If you're driving the car regularly and don't have any running issues, I wouldn't worry about "flushing the fuel lines". If the car had been sitting for a while, that would be a different story.
11-21-2009, 03:39 PM
#44
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"If were considering a future supercharger install (and I really really wish I could), I'd definitely be sourcing injectors from his shop."
sound advice; i think i will do just that,
especially considering that this is an easy update that doesn't require anymore meddling with the computer or fuel delivery system.
sound advice; i think i will do just that,
especially considering that this is an easy update that doesn't require anymore meddling with the computer or fuel delivery system.
11-22-2009, 08:50 AM
#45
RL Community Team
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John, I wouldn't worry about flushing. But obviously you want to relieve the pressure in the rail, so yes, remove the fuel pump fuse and try to start the car (a few cranks).
I'd love for there to be a new breakthrough in the 968 world, but I'm a skeptic for now. I just don't see how extra fuel will help unless there is also extra air. Better atomization always helps, but don't anyone get your hopes up on an extra 20 hp.
Even though I'm not interested in superchargers, I'd like to thank Carl for his dedication to his craft and his contribution to our world. There will be cheap copies, no doubt, but Carl is the man and his kit is legit. His hard work, thought, effort, and money went into this idea, and the idea became a well made, potent kit which anyone with a speed bug should buy.
If you think $5k is expensive, then just sit down for a minute and make a spreadsheet. Tally up the costs of making any kind of kit or conversion by yourself. You can consider a SC install, a homebrew turbo install, a 951 engine swap, a v8, anything. Don't forget to factor in your labor. I bet you won't come up with anything under $5k unless it's got less power than Carl's kit. And it won't look as nice!
Just take all that time spent in anguish and frustrated failure, and spend it at work doing overtime to save $5k.
I'd love for there to be a new breakthrough in the 968 world, but I'm a skeptic for now. I just don't see how extra fuel will help unless there is also extra air. Better atomization always helps, but don't anyone get your hopes up on an extra 20 hp.
Even though I'm not interested in superchargers, I'd like to thank Carl for his dedication to his craft and his contribution to our world. There will be cheap copies, no doubt, but Carl is the man and his kit is legit. His hard work, thought, effort, and money went into this idea, and the idea became a well made, potent kit which anyone with a speed bug should buy.
If you think $5k is expensive, then just sit down for a minute and make a spreadsheet. Tally up the costs of making any kind of kit or conversion by yourself. You can consider a SC install, a homebrew turbo install, a 951 engine swap, a v8, anything. Don't forget to factor in your labor. I bet you won't come up with anything under $5k unless it's got less power than Carl's kit. And it won't look as nice!
Just take all that time spent in anguish and frustrated failure, and spend it at work doing overtime to save $5k.