Need some help, advice, and thoughts...

I have a 1995 968 - with about 154,000 miles on the car. I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic when the timing belt went.

Local repair shop has good technician and explained that most likely the valves and cylinders are damaged.

They gave me a couple options:

a) open the engine up - replace the valves/cylinders and most likely some machining to the block - expected repair job of around $10k if you include all the other "little" things that once you start working on it.

b) replace the engine completely - about $4k for a used engine and another $4k in additional parts/labor - total would be about $8k

c) try to offload it to a "racer" - I'm not sure if this is a real option and how do you go about it and how what type of price is reasonable

It's frustrating that a single belt will do so much damage. Is there any other options that anyone has experienced? It's hard to put $8-10k into a 150k miles vehicle - wouldn't it be better to look for a new vehicle instead. Any other options, advice, thoughts???

Thanks,
Rick

 

Another option would be to take the engine out, sell whichever part that is sought after (camshafts, crankshaft, other bits) to recover the most possible funds, then buy a good (possibly rebuilt) 2.5L 944 Turbo engine along with clutch and torque tube, and swap. Custom intercooler and exhaust will be needed but I suspect net price for such a swap would be less than 10K$ and you would end up with a fabulous car.

Regards,
Chris

 

It really depends on what overall condition the rest of the car is in. If it's a nice car and you would like to keep it, I would consider replacing the engine and selling the used one in parts like Kit_Chris says. If the car is rough, I would unload it.

 

154K miles isn't going to give you a lot of upside, I'd consider a V8 conversion.

 

Maybe look into just buying a new head rather than the whole engine. A lot less than $4K in labor to install a new head... or you need to find an honest mechanic.

BTW, what was the story with the belt that broke? When was it changed?

 

There are a lot of relatively inexpensive 968's out there. There was a really nice one with 109K miles on it that went for about $11K. You might just want to sell yours and buy another one. There are probably quite a few people here that would be interested in your car for parts, racing, etc. As a matter of fact, I might be interested myself depending on what you have.

If you decide to sell, let me know.

 

Rick,

unfortunately the biggest cost in this issue is labor. most independant shops are in the $100/hr + range for work. I'm not sure what book time is, but would guess in the ~30 hour range to R&R the cylinder head, machine work, replace the damaged head parts, etc. I would assume that even if I were to do the job the wholesale cost on all of the required parts is ~$1,500 to $2,000.

all this damage is due to the 968 engine being an "interference" engine, which means the valves in the head will contact the pistons if the timing (belt) breaks. this is a very common design, even in more modern engines today.

you might be able to find a GOOD technical shool in your area that is willing to do the labor for free or reduced cost. as long as they have access (like the internet) to factory manuals/info, they can perfom the work required and save you $$$$. the issue with this is the length of time it may take over paying a qualified tech to perfrom the work.

again, it all depends on the overall shape of the car, and if you are attached to it.

Good Luck!

 

Wow... lots of doom and gloom here! It's a *perfect* time to do a turbo conversion!

I feel your pain, but short of opening it up, you aren't going to know what the damage really is. Yes, you'll have bent valves, but I doubt you'll have cylinder damage from a broken timing belt. With 154k, yeah, you'll have to make some choices and pretty much all of them involve $'s, but if the rest of the car is in decent, its worth consideringf the options.

If you decide to walk away from it, I am guessing there are plenty of folks here that would be interested in your car. Keep us posted!

By the way, where is the car located?

Regards,

 

Your location?

 

I have a top end that I might be willing to let go. PM me if interested.

 

There you go. Just get a good replacement head in working condition -- assuming you can get one at a decent price, it's going to be much more economical than getting your current one repaired.

At a pinch you could even put an S2 head on -- they bolt straight on the block, apparently. You'd lose the variocam obviously, and have to put in the S2 DME as well, but there are probably a lot more spare S2 heads to choose from.

Just out of interest -- what's the going price on a decent 968 head these days? 2.5l 944 heads can be had for a few hundred, S2s maybe a bit more...

 

I was at a similar crossroads recently with my 968. I decided to bite the bullet and repair what was needed. Boy am I ever glad I did. My car had 165,000 miles on her when I had the bottom end rebuilt and the rest of the repairs seen to. My tech had the head off and asked if the PO or myself had ever had head work done before. It had never been touched. He explained the compression was the same as a motor w/ 20,000 miles. This is a testament to the durability of our cars. I really have no desire to search for another car and inherit any unforeseen gremlins, so IMO repair the damage and keep the car if you're as attached as I am. What else can you get for the same $$ and be certain everything mechanical is a known & as good as new, which is what you'll get for the money spent? It's a great feeling knowing you have a familiar car, with a rebuilt motor and haven't bought into somebody else's latent issues. Besides, these cars are getting scarcer every year. I've spent about $10K on the car over the last 3 years and can say I have a rebuilt motor, all new suspension bushings, new brakes, M030 sway bars, Konis all around, new control arms and a replacement transaxle for that money. If you take your time and research you'll find a way to make it happen. If I did it, anyone can. Save the car! My $0.02

 

I lost the timing belt on my '95 at 185k miles, luckily only 2 valves got bent and no piston damage at all. The cylinders looked brand new. I just replaced the 2 valves, did a little "while you're in there" work, and put it back together. Now it runs as strong as any 968 I've driven, low-mileage and high-mileage alike.

 

You do have a lot of reasonable options. The least of which is scraping the car. All the people on this forum are great people and will help you out of a difficult situation. What is your location? We can help you!!

 

Hmmmm, that's what I'd do. When my ******* wagon Saturn dies, I'd love a 968 with a LSx daily driver. M030 car remains a garage queen.