Major statewide change in fuel formulations
06-09-2008, 04:33 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Major statewide change in fuel formulations
I went to fill the car the other day and found there's no more 93 octane gas in Maine (top is 91 now), and all gas is 10% porkohol (ethanol).
What do drivers stuck with this formulation do? It's new to me.
Many thanks in advance.
What do drivers stuck with this formulation do? It's new to me.
Many thanks in advance.
06-09-2008, 04:39 PM
#3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That's what we get here much of the time. The octane is no big deal as we have lower air pressure at 5k feet plus.. My cars run fine on it as long as it's a quality supply.
06-09-2008, 06:53 PM
#4
Ethanol evaporates at a lower temp than gasoline. Ethanol is added beacuse it is cheaper and you can achieve the same octane rating as straight gasonline while saving some money. The only things to do is research some fuel additives that raise the octane. You have to be careful on which one you buy because some contain chemicles that will not do you any good in hot weather because they too will evaporate.
06-09-2008, 07:09 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for this. Of course, given today's gas prices, and the cost of, say, Techron, which is what I thought I'd use, things are looking bleak for my continued 968 ownership.
All because Maine's oil companies suddenly took all the good gasoline away!!!!
All because Maine's oil companies suddenly took all the good gasoline away!!!!
06-09-2008, 10:01 PM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Techron? the additive? How does that figure in?
Hard to imagine getting better real-world MPG than the 968, unless you spend a fir bit of money on a Prius or TDi, or get an old CRX HF or Geo Metro.
-Joel.
Hard to imagine getting better real-world MPG than the 968, unless you spend a fir bit of money on a Prius or TDi, or get an old CRX HF or Geo Metro.
-Joel.
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06-12-2008, 11:00 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Ethanol is an oxygenate and is added to gasoline to reduce nitrous oxide emmisions. Federal law requires the additon of an oxygenate to gasoline in what they refer to as "non attainment areas" which are geographic areas that cannot meet the federal limits for nitrous oxides. Usually the non attainment areas are around the large cities that have characteristically always had "smog".
Unfortunately, ethanol has develped a huge lobby effort in Washington. Not only is there an upcharge for ethanol enhanced product, but the feds subsidize the ethanol manufacturers since the cost of ethanol was not cost competitive with the competing refinery produced oxygenate when the non attainment laws went into effect back in the 90's. So, the farmers are extremely happy these days. And, it is at your expense since it is much more profitable for a farmer to produce corn for ethanol than for food consumption. Which explains why the prices of all things in the food chain requiring corn have gone up drastically in the last few years.
But, at least the air is cleaner......in this country.
Ethanol enhanced fuel should run fine in your cars; however, since ethanol produces less BTU's than other gasoline components, you should experience a slight drop in mileage with its use.
If you are burning ethanol and your engine is suddenly not running right, you may have picked up some water since ethanol is hydroscopic (meaning that it attracts water). So, if your gas station has not been diligent about pumping water out of his underground storage tanks....you may end up with a load of water in your fuel. The issue is more complicated than that, but the point that I wanted to make is that ethanol should not trigger poorer running, though you will see a slight drop in mileage.
Unfortunately, ethanol has develped a huge lobby effort in Washington. Not only is there an upcharge for ethanol enhanced product, but the feds subsidize the ethanol manufacturers since the cost of ethanol was not cost competitive with the competing refinery produced oxygenate when the non attainment laws went into effect back in the 90's. So, the farmers are extremely happy these days. And, it is at your expense since it is much more profitable for a farmer to produce corn for ethanol than for food consumption. Which explains why the prices of all things in the food chain requiring corn have gone up drastically in the last few years.
But, at least the air is cleaner......in this country.
Ethanol enhanced fuel should run fine in your cars; however, since ethanol produces less BTU's than other gasoline components, you should experience a slight drop in mileage with its use.
If you are burning ethanol and your engine is suddenly not running right, you may have picked up some water since ethanol is hydroscopic (meaning that it attracts water). So, if your gas station has not been diligent about pumping water out of his underground storage tanks....you may end up with a load of water in your fuel. The issue is more complicated than that, but the point that I wanted to make is that ethanol should not trigger poorer running, though you will see a slight drop in mileage.
06-13-2008, 08:04 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for this. The octane rating of our fuels has dropped from 93 to 91, however, which concerns me more.
Sorry for the "Techron" remarks. Been sick lately and the medications make me stupid.
Sorry for the "Techron" remarks. Been sick lately and the medications make me stupid.
06-15-2008, 11:20 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
One last comment about octane and the 968. A lot of folks actually can run midgrade on their cars, with just an imperceptable loss in power. I'm not suggesting that you do that, but the cars will run fine on 87 octane fuel with or without ethanol. So, dropping from 93 to 91 octane should not be an issue for a non-modified engine.
One more comment about ethanol. The stuff is hydroscopic, meaning that it will absorb water. ALL underground fuel storage tanks usually have water in them.
The water gets there as condensate either as rain leaking in, or as subtle as the morning dew dripping into a poorly sealed or vented tank. Snce it is a requirement that all underground tanks be vented, the moisture usually gets in from there. It can get in from tank fill caps that have lost their sealing ability. Or water can get in from a break in the tank wall. (though the Feds require underground instrumentation that is supposed to sense a breach in the fuel tank wall).
In the end, it is the diligence of the station operator to monitor the water level in his tanks. If he does, then he should have little if any water in his tanks. When fuel containing ethanol is delivered to the tank, the little remaining water will be "sopped" up by the ethanol. This is OK until the sopping up picks up more water than the ethanol can absorb. At that point, the ethanol that is now over-saturated with water will actually separate from the gasoline and go to the bottom of the tank, which is a bad thing. Your car won't run on ethanol ladened with water. Nor will it run on the very low octane gasoline that has separated from the ethanol (this is because ethanol is an octane booster, so the gasoline recipe calls for lower octane and then when the ethanol is added, the octane rises to the required value).
When a dealer has an ethanol separation nothing good comes out of it. When ethanol was mandated for gasoline back in the 90's, essentially all major oil companies got blindsided. We "assumed" that the tanks would be water free, which most were not! When thre first loads of enthanol hit these stations (by the hundreds of stations across the country!!) we began to get claims and suits alleging that the cars that took on a load of bad product had to have their engines rebuilt (actually just the fuel systems flushed).
In the end, it cost us millions if lost sales and reputation. It took us about two months to figure it out and to get in place procedures for checking storage tanks.
That was an expensive lesson and should insure you that you do not get bad product.
My final advice is to try and purchase your fuel from a station that moves more product than others. If the product sits in a tank for more than 1-2 weeks then you stand a chance of getting the issues I talked about earlier.
One more comment about ethanol. The stuff is hydroscopic, meaning that it will absorb water. ALL underground fuel storage tanks usually have water in them.
The water gets there as condensate either as rain leaking in, or as subtle as the morning dew dripping into a poorly sealed or vented tank. Snce it is a requirement that all underground tanks be vented, the moisture usually gets in from there. It can get in from tank fill caps that have lost their sealing ability. Or water can get in from a break in the tank wall. (though the Feds require underground instrumentation that is supposed to sense a breach in the fuel tank wall).
In the end, it is the diligence of the station operator to monitor the water level in his tanks. If he does, then he should have little if any water in his tanks. When fuel containing ethanol is delivered to the tank, the little remaining water will be "sopped" up by the ethanol. This is OK until the sopping up picks up more water than the ethanol can absorb. At that point, the ethanol that is now over-saturated with water will actually separate from the gasoline and go to the bottom of the tank, which is a bad thing. Your car won't run on ethanol ladened with water. Nor will it run on the very low octane gasoline that has separated from the ethanol (this is because ethanol is an octane booster, so the gasoline recipe calls for lower octane and then when the ethanol is added, the octane rises to the required value).
When a dealer has an ethanol separation nothing good comes out of it. When ethanol was mandated for gasoline back in the 90's, essentially all major oil companies got blindsided. We "assumed" that the tanks would be water free, which most were not! When thre first loads of enthanol hit these stations (by the hundreds of stations across the country!!) we began to get claims and suits alleging that the cars that took on a load of bad product had to have their engines rebuilt (actually just the fuel systems flushed).
In the end, it cost us millions if lost sales and reputation. It took us about two months to figure it out and to get in place procedures for checking storage tanks.
That was an expensive lesson and should insure you that you do not get bad product.
My final advice is to try and purchase your fuel from a station that moves more product than others. If the product sits in a tank for more than 1-2 weeks then you stand a chance of getting the issues I talked about earlier.
