air box mods / which chip ?
03-30-2008, 05:55 PM
#31
Sport exhausts will not outperform the OEM exhaust (except for providing a "better" sound). So, other than chipping your car and doing the airbox mod, there really isn't a whole lot you can do without spending big bucks and going radical by doing cams or playing with head mods. And, though I have never driven one of the cars with these radical mods, I would bet that there is a sizeable tradeoff in driveability.
A turbo engine may be easier to live, but the price tag is way higher. Bolt on mods and minor internal work are easier to do, and the response of a n/a motor is much better than a turbo motor.
03-30-2008, 06:19 PM
#32
I meant to speak more figuratively than literally when I made the S2000 comparison. Raj is certainly correct that the mass of the 3.0 cannot achieve that sort of spin. However, I was stunned at the difference in butt-o-meter feel with a lightweight flywheel.
There is also no question that a turbo makes a tremendous difference in 968 performance - the highest evolution of the 968 series. And while some Porsche conversion experiments are true Frankensteins, the 968 turbo is not. The factory did it themselves, just not enough to satisfy the demand that now exists. The point I was making is that, contrary to some thoughts, there is quite a bit of performance that can be unlocked from the stock 968 without a major engine conversion.
There is also no question that a turbo makes a tremendous difference in 968 performance - the highest evolution of the 968 series. And while some Porsche conversion experiments are true Frankensteins, the 968 turbo is not. The factory did it themselves, just not enough to satisfy the demand that now exists. The point I was making is that, contrary to some thoughts, there is quite a bit of performance that can be unlocked from the stock 968 without a major engine conversion.
03-30-2008, 07:31 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
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this thread has gotten tremendously off topic, and i will contribute to taking it further off topic. a cheap 968 upgrade is a chip with airbox mod. a cheaper performance upgrade would be to check your throttle cable and make sure your butterfly plate opens all the way. if you like, you can put a catback exhaust on and drop some weight and make it louder. if you want to go any further, just buy a 951 and mod that.
but seriously, if anyone needs that airbox. (it will be a month before i can get it to you)
but seriously, if anyone needs that airbox. (it will be a month before i can get it to you)
03-30-2008, 08:57 PM
#34
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03-30-2008, 09:55 PM
#36
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03-30-2008, 10:09 PM
#37
Happily Amused
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For that price I could turbo the 968. Plus, I think the 968 looks much better and in fact I think the 968 cab is the best looking Porsche since the 356.
03-31-2008, 09:19 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
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for less than you could turbo your 968, you could buy a whole 951. do like i did, get cheap power out of your 968 cab and then buy a 951 for terrorizing the streets.
04-01-2008, 02:39 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
I am coming to appreciate the humor in this message string! We have danced with everything from air box mods to turbo 968's!
There was one post, though, that I need to address. That is the one that made the "old American" quote.... that to get the most out of a motor, you have to open up the exhaust.
There was a very nice posting by Bob Larson (aka "Flash") on the 968 forums website that I would suggest reading. I can't do it much justice; however, perhaps I can sum it up as far as exhaust systems are concerned.
The 968 engine design is much more involved than would seem possible. In fact, the induction system on the car "pulses". The exhaust system was designed so that the frequency of the pulsing did not produce harmonics in the exhaust system that would produce back pressure.
That's a terrible description (read Flash's postings for more accurate data!) of the issue. In simpler terms, when you put a larger system on a 968 to "open up" the exhaust, what you end up with is a car with flat spots in the acceleration curve and a car that doesn't have the power of the car fitted with the "closed down" exhaust system.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only two suppliers of "decent" exhausts for the 968: RS Barns and B&B. Having read all the literature I could get my hands on when researching exhausts for my car, it appeared as though any gain in power from the after market exhaust was "marginal" at best. But, both systems did manage to remove most of the "flat spots" mentioned above. So, all the hype on the boards for people looking to fit either system was over the "sounds" of the system.
I ended up selecting the Barns system, mostly based upon the opinions of the users of both systems. Once installed, I found the sound to be much closer to what I would like. But, truthfully, my seat of pants feel sees very little if any difference from the OEM exhaust.
What the system does give you is about a 30# reduction in weight! So, as you remove weight from these cars, you should begin to pick up faster acceleration.
Some owners did a lot of trial and error fitting of mufflers; but, to a man, they all came back saying that they were disappointed.
Just my 2 cents.
Ernie
There was one post, though, that I need to address. That is the one that made the "old American" quote.... that to get the most out of a motor, you have to open up the exhaust.
There was a very nice posting by Bob Larson (aka "Flash") on the 968 forums website that I would suggest reading. I can't do it much justice; however, perhaps I can sum it up as far as exhaust systems are concerned.
The 968 engine design is much more involved than would seem possible. In fact, the induction system on the car "pulses". The exhaust system was designed so that the frequency of the pulsing did not produce harmonics in the exhaust system that would produce back pressure.
That's a terrible description (read Flash's postings for more accurate data!) of the issue. In simpler terms, when you put a larger system on a 968 to "open up" the exhaust, what you end up with is a car with flat spots in the acceleration curve and a car that doesn't have the power of the car fitted with the "closed down" exhaust system.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only two suppliers of "decent" exhausts for the 968: RS Barns and B&B. Having read all the literature I could get my hands on when researching exhausts for my car, it appeared as though any gain in power from the after market exhaust was "marginal" at best. But, both systems did manage to remove most of the "flat spots" mentioned above. So, all the hype on the boards for people looking to fit either system was over the "sounds" of the system.
I ended up selecting the Barns system, mostly based upon the opinions of the users of both systems. Once installed, I found the sound to be much closer to what I would like. But, truthfully, my seat of pants feel sees very little if any difference from the OEM exhaust.
What the system does give you is about a 30# reduction in weight! So, as you remove weight from these cars, you should begin to pick up faster acceleration.
Some owners did a lot of trial and error fitting of mufflers; but, to a man, they all came back saying that they were disappointed.
Just my 2 cents.
Ernie
04-01-2008, 02:46 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
I am coming to appreciate the humor in this message string! We have danced with everything from air box mods to turbo 968's!
There was one post, though, that I need to address. That is the one that made the "old American" quote.... that to get the most out of a motor, you have to open up the exhaust.
There was a very nice posting by Bob Larson (aka "Flash") on the 968 forums website that I would suggest reading. I can't do it much justice; however, perhaps I can sum it up as far as exhaust systems are concerned.
The 968 engine design is much more involved than would seem possible. In fact, the indusction system on the car "pulses". The exhaust system was designed so that the frequency of the pulsing did not produce harmonics in the exhaust system that would produce back pressure.
That's a terrible description (read Flash's postings for more accurate data!) of the issue. In simpler terms, when you put a larger exhause system on a 968 to "open up" the exhaust, what you end up with is a car with flat spots in the acceleration curve and a car that doesn't have the power of the car fitted with the "closed down" exhaust system.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only two suppliers of "decent" exhausts for the 968: RS Barns and B&B. Having read all the literature I could get my hands on when researching exhausts for my car, it appeared as though any gain in power from the after market exhaust was "marginal" at best. But, for the B&B did manage to remove most of the "flat spots" mentioned above. So, all the hype on the boards for people looking to fit either system was over the "sounds" of the system.
I ended up selecting the Barns system, mostly based upon the opinions of the users of both systems. Once installed, I found the sound to be much closer to what I would like. But, truthfully, my seat of pants feel sees very little if any difference from the OEM exhaust.
What the system does give you is about a 30# reduction in weight! So, as you remove weight from these cars, you should begin to pick up faster acceleration.
Some owners did a lot of trial and error fitting of mufflers; but, to a man, they all came back saying that they were disappointed.
Just my 2 cents.
Ernie
There was one post, though, that I need to address. That is the one that made the "old American" quote.... that to get the most out of a motor, you have to open up the exhaust.
There was a very nice posting by Bob Larson (aka "Flash") on the 968 forums website that I would suggest reading. I can't do it much justice; however, perhaps I can sum it up as far as exhaust systems are concerned.
The 968 engine design is much more involved than would seem possible. In fact, the indusction system on the car "pulses". The exhaust system was designed so that the frequency of the pulsing did not produce harmonics in the exhaust system that would produce back pressure.
That's a terrible description (read Flash's postings for more accurate data!) of the issue. In simpler terms, when you put a larger exhause system on a 968 to "open up" the exhaust, what you end up with is a car with flat spots in the acceleration curve and a car that doesn't have the power of the car fitted with the "closed down" exhaust system.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only two suppliers of "decent" exhausts for the 968: RS Barns and B&B. Having read all the literature I could get my hands on when researching exhausts for my car, it appeared as though any gain in power from the after market exhaust was "marginal" at best. But, for the B&B did manage to remove most of the "flat spots" mentioned above. So, all the hype on the boards for people looking to fit either system was over the "sounds" of the system.
I ended up selecting the Barns system, mostly based upon the opinions of the users of both systems. Once installed, I found the sound to be much closer to what I would like. But, truthfully, my seat of pants feel sees very little if any difference from the OEM exhaust.
What the system does give you is about a 30# reduction in weight! So, as you remove weight from these cars, you should begin to pick up faster acceleration.
Some owners did a lot of trial and error fitting of mufflers; but, to a man, they all came back saying that they were disappointed.
Just my 2 cents.
Ernie
04-01-2008, 04:55 PM
#42
Ernie, all the information about the exhaust and intake systems has been well documented in both factory literature as well as magazine articles over the last 13 years. To my knowledge there has not been a TRUE comparison of all the performance exhaust systems by an INDEPENDENT observer.
US manufacturers can claim any performance gain they want, as they are not required to provide proof of their claims. Germany makes the vendor provide proof of their claims, via the TuV. (That's not to say any US firms don't provide a performance increase, btw).
Only one exhaust vendor provides TuV certification. Cargraphic.
And here it is.
US manufacturers can claim any performance gain they want, as they are not required to provide proof of their claims. Germany makes the vendor provide proof of their claims, via the TuV. (That's not to say any US firms don't provide a performance increase, btw).
Only one exhaust vendor provides TuV certification. Cargraphic.
And here it is.
04-01-2008, 05:23 PM
#44
It's only 15 or so lbs less than stock, and I don't even know what they charge now-Cargraphic has a new US distributor. With the dollar and euro it's probably enough to buy a driver 944.
04-01-2008, 05:35 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
The Cargraphics unit is very well built and would last the life of a car. Its built to a much higher standard than any of the other exhausts I have ever seen. It also sounds great.
Raj
Raj