dsumrall

Hi,

I just sold my 95 968 (I am in Texas) to a gentleman in California. And he is having trouble with the emissions testing because of the OBD I system and because the cars gauge cluster does not have a "CHECK ENGINE" light that says specifically "CHECK ENGINE". I have post copied his emails below ...please read and give me your thoughts. This guy is a great guy and I don't want him to re-sale the car just because he or his mechanic thinks it can not be driven legally on California streets.

Any thoughts or direction would be great.

D

1st Email:
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but, among other things, the car
has been occupying my attention

The car arrived without blemish, although I had to replace the outside
driver's door latch assembly within a couple of days.

The main problem may be that I will be unable to get the car California
smog certified. This is because while it actually does meet the
emission requirements it's instrument cluster does not have a "check
engine" light as required in California for '95. (The owners manual
mentions, and shows, a "check engine light" but qualifies it with the
statement "on cars so equipped"). Despite this no electrical schematic
the local independent Porsche shop (a race oriented shop) has been able
to dig up for the entire 968 series shows such a light. Tomorrow I will
take it to a Porsche dealer who does smog checks and try to find out
what gives. I am really P.O.d about this because my stupid '92 Ford has
a "check engine" light.

The general feeling with the independent shop and myself is that there
is a little hanky-panky on Porsche's part here (they, of course will
never admit such) and it goes as follows:

Between '94 & '95 the OBD I system was to be switched to the OBD II. If
this was not a Federal, but only a California mandate, here is what we
think happened: The OBD II required a "check engine" light in CA and
this is why CA says it should be there - or else. But Porsche knew this
was the last of the model run and they probably didn't want to go to the
expense of developing the OBD II system for only 645 or so cars for the
U.S. So, they simply didn't import any '95 968s into California. To
avoid any call out on not having switched, while still having a 50 state
compliant representation they simply made sure any '95 968 would be
blocked from CA. Although the under hood sticker says it meets CA
emission requirements (which it does) and there was was no separate
Federal/CA call out for the '95 cars as there had been till the mid
'80s they fail to mention that if you bought it in Texas - for example
- and moved to California you'd be up the creek.

If I am up the creek I will have to license the car as a "stored"
vehicle while I try to sell it on the net.

If it comes to this I would very much appreciate your permission to use
you as a reference to my internet honesty. This would require my
providing your phone number (as used on your autotrader listing for the
car) and/or your e-mail address.

If you, or any of your friends in the Porsche club can shed any light on
this it could be a big help. For example do any owner's of a '92 or
later 944 or 968 have an instrument cluster (particularly the oil
pressure/ammeter gauge where the owners manual shows this wording
appearing) that says "check engine". If so could they determine the
part number.

Second Email:
Since sending my last e-mail I went to autotrader and there is a newly
listed '95 968 for sale in Santa Barbara. The first CA '95 I can recall
seeing on autotrader.

This would certainly seem to indicate that there is some way to make a
968 California compliant.

The only strange thing is this is listed as a locally owned car, however
the previous plates have been removed and substituted with dealer paper
plates.

In California there would have been no necessity to remove the prior
plates even if they had expired registration tags.

Don't know what this means, but the listing will be an interesting
supporting document when I go to the Porsche dealer later today.

boost feen

There is a check engine light in all 968's so his bulb must be out in your old car! Tell him to unhook the battery, take the steering wheel off, remove the heater vent and gauge surround, then remove the instrument cluster and replace all bulbs and check it out. He can also repaint the silver reflective material that reflects the gauge lighting as they are all peeling by now! There is a black 1995 968 selling on craigslist in San Fransisco right now with 220K miles its been here forever and its $8,900

dsumrall

Is this more than the exclamation mark warning light...it actually has the "CHECK ENGINE" text?

boost feen

I should have read your post more carefully as the Exlamation point !!! is really the only check engine light
in the 968's. There is not a specific window that actually reads "check engine". But there are lots of 968's here and there all the same so if there is some weird law regarding the '95 and later model year tell him to go to a shady tree smogg guy who will just run it through the regular stuff and not get hung up on some little thing like this.

PorscheG96

My '92 and '94 968's both had check engine lights and I can't imagine that a '95 is any different. Yes it actually reads 'Check Engine' and causes the idiot light to come on also. No 968's were OBDII, period. They're all OBDI so I don't think that your theory holds. In fact I think that's a big reason why Porsche didn't continue building anything but the 911 past 1995 - the conversion was very expensive - 993 was OBDI in 1995 and OBDII in 1996-1998.

Anyway, the 968's check engine light is at the bottom of cluster #4 [the one on the right w/ oil pressure and voltage] directly below the airbag warning light. I know this for a fact because I tried to cheat the CA check engine light check by removing the bulb from my old '92 because it had an aftermarket chip which triggered the light. They failed me for visual because the check engine light didn't come on w/ the key in accessory position before going out. You cannot see the Check Engine light at all if the bulb is burned out so unless you're not looking in the right place then it's got to be the bulb...

FRporscheman

My '95 is a California car. It was sold in San Diego, taken to San Ramon, then bought by me.

It has the "!" light. It also has a light in the right gauge which reads "CHECK ENGINE". It should light up red when you put in the key and turn it. ALL 968s have this. If it's not there, the bulb is out!

H2

If you shine a strong flashlight beam onto the dash instrument area where the Check Engine light should be, you may be able to faintly see it. I've done this on one of my Pcars but don't remember offhand which one. At least you may be able to tell the area where the burned out bulb is supposed to be. If the dash is pulled to change bulbs, it has to be done carefully.

H2

FRporscheman

The CEL is in the right gauge with the volts and the oil pressure, in the center, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. It's red, but hidden while off.

I can see how it's being scrutinized at the smog check, because it's being brought in from out of state. CA is stupid like that - they care more about legalizing emissions than paving the roads properly.

It is unlikely you can find a station where they will overlook the CEL for California-izing a car. That's one of the main things they look for. Working CEL, cat present, sniffer test, etc.

Stephenwz968

Yup, I had a problem with the CEL in my old old black cab...it's definitely there, bottom of the voltage/oil pressure cluster. As stated, it should light up with the turn of the key to the accessory position.

Good luck!
Steve

PorscheDude1

I have a 968 instrument cluster from a tip car. Different tach. But does have the correct speedo with the CEL light, if you need it.

RajDatta

Actually, you can remove the cluster without removing the airbag/steering. It requires some trickery but it can be done. The vents can be squeezed out and if you angle the cluster in the proper manner, you can remove it with the steering in place. Done it plenty of times without issues.
Don't forget to disconnect the 3 wire 1st though. Also, make sure you disconnect the battery as suggested.
I bet that either the bulb is out or missing. This is the cheapest way to fix check engine light and unfortunately some prefer doing this can fixing the cause.
I did an extensive write up a yr or so back on stuttgart. Let me know if you want me to email it to you.
Raj

FRporscheman

Oh yeah, Raj brings up a good point. When they replace the bulb, they should be ready for it to tell them there's a problem... They might have to repair something before they can get it refereed.

rpm's S2

I grew up there and love to visit... but I don't miss CA that much.

H2

What happend to Stuttgart? I liked the format. Someone put a lot of work into that site. I visit it once in a while to see if it's going to "take off."

Harvey