Is the 968 REALLY better than a good 944S2?
#18
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no idea - haven't pulled one off to look, but one would think they would mention that if they did
they did a lot of work on the induction and exhaust on this car - on that same page, it also talks about "streamlining the engine's internal aerodynamics from the air intake in the nose, all the way back to the tailpipe" - it also mentions the twin tailpipes, new cat, and new muffler
on the subject of the manifold, there is a nice little picture, and the caption "Resonant Induction is one of 968 engine's many "torque enhancement" technologies
early on the page, they make mention of starting with the engine from the S2, but then go about describing the differences
later they also mention the piston spraying, reduced mass rods and crankshaft
they did a lot of work on the induction and exhaust on this car - on that same page, it also talks about "streamlining the engine's internal aerodynamics from the air intake in the nose, all the way back to the tailpipe" - it also mentions the twin tailpipes, new cat, and new muffler
on the subject of the manifold, there is a nice little picture, and the caption "Resonant Induction is one of 968 engine's many "torque enhancement" technologies
early on the page, they make mention of starting with the engine from the S2, but then go about describing the differences
later they also mention the piston spraying, reduced mass rods and crankshaft
#19
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...78333776QQrdZ1
Besides the obvious cosmetic differences, looks like a dual resonance intake manifold to me.
Raj
Besides the obvious cosmetic differences, looks like a dual resonance intake manifold to me.
Raj
#20
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hey - i'm just quoting porsche - i said i have not done a side by side comparison - i am told the intake gaskets are different, that the S2 intake ports are smaller too, and that the main difference in the manifold is seen from underneath where you can see the large bulbous casting of the 968 manifold
the part numbers for the S2 are 944.110.035.00 and 01 - the part number for the 968 is 944.110.035.03
peter morgan goes on to further describe the manifold and its new design in his book, and even describes the 0.3 bar (4 psi) boost that it provides
there are those who remember you saying at the celebration in newtown that the 968 intake manifold had a butterfly valve in it - did we all hear you wrong?
also, i just went down and looked at my manifold and to me it looks very different than the one in that pic
the part numbers for the S2 are 944.110.035.00 and 01 - the part number for the 968 is 944.110.035.03
peter morgan goes on to further describe the manifold and its new design in his book, and even describes the 0.3 bar (4 psi) boost that it provides
there are those who remember you saying at the celebration in newtown that the 968 intake manifold had a butterfly valve in it - did we all hear you wrong?
also, i just went down and looked at my manifold and to me it looks very different than the one in that pic
Last edited by flash968; 02-09-2007 at 12:21 PM.
#21
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Originally Posted by flash968
there are those who remember you saying at the celebration in newtown that the 968 intake manifold had a butterfly valve in it - did we all hear you wrong?
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
OK... please explain how the runners go from long to short or short to long?? How does the system switch from one to the other?? Maybe a butterfly/valve controlled by vacuum???
Go, check a manifold out and you will get your answer.
Raj
#22
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it is first hand - i was in earshot, as were others, who have better manners than myself, and at this time prefer to remain quiet - they may well change their minds soon though
i have seen the inside of the manifold - i have held it in my hands and looked specifically for that which you descirbed, the next day after hearing you say that - there is no valve in there that i can see - there is a manifold on the floor at pete's shop and it has nothing in it - where is it? what vacuum line runs it?
it isn't on this diagram either
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
i have seen the inside of the manifold - i have held it in my hands and looked specifically for that which you descirbed, the next day after hearing you say that - there is no valve in there that i can see - there is a manifold on the floor at pete's shop and it has nothing in it - where is it? what vacuum line runs it?
it isn't on this diagram either
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
#26
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i thnk this should close this issue:
here are pics of the manifold clearly showing a wire running in and out, with no stop along the way to a valve
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
what am i missing?
here are pics of the manifold clearly showing a wire running in and out, with no stop along the way to a valve
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://rennlist.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif
what am i missing?
#27
Rennlist Member
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You still don't understand the concept of dual resonance, do you?
Your pictures prove nothing, just show one path.
Just some examples:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...97792&f=66&h=0
http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/abbrevs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...ntake_Manifold
Google and find the rest for yourself.
Raj
Your pictures prove nothing, just show one path.
Just some examples:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...97792&f=66&h=0
http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/abbrevs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...ntake_Manifold
Google and find the rest for yourself.
Raj
Last edited by RajDatta; 02-09-2007 at 05:50 PM.
#28
Burning Brakes
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IMO, the 968 is "better" than the S2 for a list of objective and some subjective reasons mentioned above. But, given that you already have an S2 (and you know the strengths and weaknesses of your particular car) , you may want to ask yourself "how much better does the 968 need to be to warrant selling your car and buying the 968 with its known list of problems/maintenance".
Do the updated looks, 6sp, slight power increase, etc. warrant the several thousand dollar cost of sorting the 968 out. Well, maybe, if the 968 can be bought at the right price.
I bought my 968, first, and love it. But, I wanted more power after a few years. So, I bought a 951 and now have both. Both have about 68k miles but the 951 is much tighter and seems to be built better. They have different characteristics in handling and different interior colors. But, to me. the biggest difference is in power. The mildly modded 951 is MUCH faster. If they were closer in power, as the S2 and 968 are, the difference between the two would not be enough to change from one to the other, to me. In fact, I often ask myself (even given the power difference) if its worth keeping both or should I sell one and get a car that offers a different experience, like a 911.
Bottom liine: I think sitting in the drivers seat of the S2 will not be THAT much different from sitting in the drivers seat of the 968.
Do the updated looks, 6sp, slight power increase, etc. warrant the several thousand dollar cost of sorting the 968 out. Well, maybe, if the 968 can be bought at the right price.
I bought my 968, first, and love it. But, I wanted more power after a few years. So, I bought a 951 and now have both. Both have about 68k miles but the 951 is much tighter and seems to be built better. They have different characteristics in handling and different interior colors. But, to me. the biggest difference is in power. The mildly modded 951 is MUCH faster. If they were closer in power, as the S2 and 968 are, the difference between the two would not be enough to change from one to the other, to me. In fact, I often ask myself (even given the power difference) if its worth keeping both or should I sell one and get a car that offers a different experience, like a 911.
Bottom liine: I think sitting in the drivers seat of the S2 will not be THAT much different from sitting in the drivers seat of the 968.
#29
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Hopefully, residual, collector value of the 968 will count for something. they certainly didn't make many of them...nor the front engined 928s, during the 968 years. Just take a look at the 928 GTS values as compared to older 928s.
Harvey
Harvey
#30
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raj - i understand it just fine - where is the valve you say is there?
todd - yup
hughett - i too hope for that, but like most other simi-rare cars, the prime examples will probably increase slowly in value, while the higher mileage and worn cars drop, until they are really rare altogether, and then they might climb quite a bit - this could take 20 years though, and during that time you'd pretty much have to mothball the car just to see a few thousand dollars - cars are not normally really a great investment - i'm not sure it really factors in at this point, as prices are still dropping across the board
todd - yup
hughett - i too hope for that, but like most other simi-rare cars, the prime examples will probably increase slowly in value, while the higher mileage and worn cars drop, until they are really rare altogether, and then they might climb quite a bit - this could take 20 years though, and during that time you'd pretty much have to mothball the car just to see a few thousand dollars - cars are not normally really a great investment - i'm not sure it really factors in at this point, as prices are still dropping across the board