LFA951

Factory specs are dry weight right out of the production line, now with all fluids and fuel, it may be over 3,000 lbs, which is still light. To me a difference of 200 or 300 lbs means a lot, that's why we do as many little things as we can to take out more weight, like getting a lightened flywheel, removing the pop ups, the cruise control, changing the exhuast, removing the rear seats, etc.

Evan70

Full power seats can also add significant weight (they are close to 70lbs each), but not all 951S cars had them. My car has partial power sport seats, which are probably weigh half as much (if not less) than full power seats. Full power seats over full manual could probably be close to 80lbs total just for that. I do agree though, that a 951S without the heavy seats should only be maybe 100lbs haevier than an 86, and is probably where the factory 2998lb weight figure comes from.

Factory seats (especially full power versions) are one of the biggest weight reduction items you can do. Going from full power seats to lightweight race seats could save you 100+lbs depending on what race seats you went with.

User 41221

I would agree that 200-300lbs is a lot of a weight difference in same model track prepped cars, but thats not what I was getting at with my post. The question was "how does a 928 compare to a 951/968?", which is what I was trying to answer, based on MY experience, not factory spec sheets, which aren't the last word in accuracy (again, imo based on direct experience). Take from it what you want or disregard it, your choice.

I have driven 951's, 968's and 928's on closed road courses, and the main thing I would tell you from that experience is that no two cars are the same, regardless of how they are set up, and the single biggest influence on how fast a car is going to be on the track is the driver, not the car.

Regards,

RajDatta

Evan, it is always good to have these discussions but I can say that Scott is a straight shooter. He would not say something unless he can back it up or has 1st hand experience. As he stated, he owns all 3, so who better to know what they feel like on the track.
I am not trying to discourage any discussions, this is just based on knowing Scott for a long time.
Raj

Evan70

I'd definitely agree with that. My Firehawk is right at 3500lbs, and is just as fast around our local track as my 951S. It does it in a completely different way though, and it depends a LOT on who is driving it. I've been driving similar Firebirds for the last 10 years almost continuosly, so I can get the most out of that setup. The 951 is great because you can jump into from another car style, and go fast immediately due to it's balance and "feel".

As to the 951 weight, if you took a base 951S and added all the options I could see maybe 3100lbs, but I really don't see how you'd get much heavier than that. I don't doubt what Scott has seen (like you say, every car is different), but how could the same basic car gain more than a couple hundred lbs over 2-3 years with no major changes? I know it all adds up, but cruise can't be more than a few lbs, the airbags might be 20lbs total, ABS is probably another 10lbs, etc. If they really are that much heavier, what is all the extra weight from (or are the 86 cars actually heavier than everyone thinks)?

RajDatta

I will have our race car weighed and corner balanced soon. It is an 86 so I will keep you guys posted.
Raj

Thom

IMHO the 951/968 miss that fantastic "Weissach" rear axle. Handling-wise I have found the 928 (in GT or GTS form) way ahead than any M030 951 or 968 I have driven.
Imagine a similar multilink rear axle on the 951/968 in place of the obsolete trailing arms ... now we're dreaming

LFA951

Imagine a similar multilink rear axle on the 951/968 in place of the obsolete trailing arms ... now we're dreaming

That would add more weight as well....

fletch

I must pipe in as I will be in the market soon for either a 968/951/928/911. I have owned all but the 911 and 968. Here's my .02.

86 - 951 Stage 2 chips very fast addictive you might say abit creaky and somewhat worn but handles and went like mad.
84 - 928s I never intended on getting this car and yeah it was 200-300 lbs more weight. It made me quickly forget the 944 Turbo...the V8 sound and torque was impressive. I felt it was almost as quick as the 944t obviously on paper it would lose, but it didn't feel slower. Power anywhere anytime to redline was the order of the day and the styling and build quality simply put the 944 to shame after a while.
Now a comment on handling. Yes the 944t was more nimble but the 928 really did feel lighter and more tossable the faster you went. I had a driving experience I will never forget in that car during a gathereing of 928's on a fun run. OMG I was able to push this car WAY beyond what I thought I could.
Probably my favorite P-Car so far next to the 04 Boxster. The 928 is high on my list.........

LFA951

I saw a white 968 the other day with the top down and an older blond lady driving it, I said to myself, that's a chick's car, I don't think I have ever seen a woman driving a 944 turbo. It made me realize that a 951 is more masculine looking and with the exception of the 968 Turbo S (a whole other animal), I think the Boxster (non S) also looks kinda like that white 968...

Evan70

Well, I finally sold the 951. Now I just have to find the right 968. Good thing I've given myself 1-1.5 years to look since I want to find a really nice M030 car.

Clem

There is one for sale right now on both of the 968 boards.
If you want a really nice M030 car, I would look seriously at that. They don't come around that often.

That said - M030 cars, IMO are overvalued.

glencase

First do you have another p-car to drive right now? If not are you sure you want to wait a whole year to find one?

I've never driven a 951, but I did own an 87 944 n/a which was all fine and good.

The 968's are pretty quick but its linear power, very managable, the turbos are way more exciting i'm sure.

My suggestion is pick up a coupe (the cabrios I've heard have a lot of body flex, not compared to cars of the day but with cars of today) with decent mileage, and start working on it cause you know as well as I do it is a labor of love when it comes to p-cars.

You'll pay through the nose for low mileage m030 car.

My advice find a cheaper one, make sure the major components are ok and pick it up, fix it, drive it, sell it and make some $.

I got mine for $8500 on ebay from SC and I'm pretty pleased.

Glen

Evan70

I've already been the "find a cheaper one" route. Twice. I'll never do it again with a Porsche, just too much pain and suffering. I don't really have to have a Porsche to drive everyday, I have the Firehawk to enjoy as a performance car. Plus the wife wants to find a Volvo Turbo wagon to use for a daily driver, so we're focused on that first. The hunt for a Porsche is kind of a back burner thing, but definitely one that I plan to complete within the timeframe I gave. They are just too much fun not to have one, but I really want to find a really good example that I don't need to worry about maintenance issues on. I not completely set on an M030 car, but if it wasn't M030 it would have to already be upgraded and sorted to outdo one, since one of the primary duties would be track days.

RajDatta

Evan, you have gotten wiser over time . I agree100%, you are better off buying a car with full maintainence up to date than getting one and finding all the surprises.
Raj