968 w/ M030 for sale - BUYER BEWARE!
11-28-2004, 02:58 PM
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968 w/ M030 for sale - BUYER BEWARE!
The 968 with M030 is an interesting car, and there is a tantalizing black '94 M030 for sale on eBay right now. But buyer beware!
This seller had the same car listed on Autotrader and after a couple phone calls I successfully negotiated a price with him. Our agreement was that before I paid, he would provide me with the VIN (now I see why he never gave me that), photos of certain parts of the car I wanted (such as the factory option code sticker), a fax or scan of the supposed Porsche dealer inspection report, and he'd take the car for a new inspection and dyno test (at my expense). He never did any of the above, and then demanded that I give him an unbargained-for pre-inspection "deposit" of thousands of dollars. I demanded that we stick with the original deal and he broke it off, saying that he had another buyer "lined up." Also, he was very poor at communicating with me, and I think this was by design.
From our discussions, I don't think the seller is a Porsche enthusiast, he seems dishonest, and is certainly unreliable. I wouldn't trust the car to be in good condition, to have the right maintenance history and to have a legitimate title unless you can confirm those things to a certainty.
Here is a link to the 968 on eBay in case you want to take chances with your time and money: http://tinyurl.com/6adst. Or go to www.ebaymotors.com and look up item number 4507928706.
This seller had the same car listed on Autotrader and after a couple phone calls I successfully negotiated a price with him. Our agreement was that before I paid, he would provide me with the VIN (now I see why he never gave me that), photos of certain parts of the car I wanted (such as the factory option code sticker), a fax or scan of the supposed Porsche dealer inspection report, and he'd take the car for a new inspection and dyno test (at my expense). He never did any of the above, and then demanded that I give him an unbargained-for pre-inspection "deposit" of thousands of dollars. I demanded that we stick with the original deal and he broke it off, saying that he had another buyer "lined up." Also, he was very poor at communicating with me, and I think this was by design.
From our discussions, I don't think the seller is a Porsche enthusiast, he seems dishonest, and is certainly unreliable. I wouldn't trust the car to be in good condition, to have the right maintenance history and to have a legitimate title unless you can confirm those things to a certainty.
Here is a link to the 968 on eBay in case you want to take chances with your time and money: http://tinyurl.com/6adst. Or go to www.ebaymotors.com and look up item number 4507928706.
11-28-2004, 09:05 PM
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I spoke with this fellow in late September after I had wrecked my black 968 track car. Since I was looking for another track car, the thought of acquiring a real factory M030 optioned car was most appealing.
I don't think I would go so far as to characterize him as "dishonest". For example, in discussing the car, he disclosed to me that the car was re-painted, which he described as a very good job.
The owner had told me, at that time, that a PPI had been performed a couple of weeks earlier and the inspection results were good. He offered to fax me a copy of the PPI "report", but never did. I called him to follow-up and he was apologetic, but I never received any additional information from him. I had identified myself as a Porsche enthusiast, so the seller knew that I was a serious prospective buyer. True, I was in New York and the car is in Atlanta; but I eventually bought a car from a guy in Illinois!
Now, if this fellow is actually going through a divorce at present, he probably has a lot of other stuff on his plate that takes priority over selling a car. No doubt he will sell this car, but the buyer probably won't be a knowledgeable Porsche enthusiast.
Ciao.
Richard
I don't think I would go so far as to characterize him as "dishonest". For example, in discussing the car, he disclosed to me that the car was re-painted, which he described as a very good job.
The owner had told me, at that time, that a PPI had been performed a couple of weeks earlier and the inspection results were good. He offered to fax me a copy of the PPI "report", but never did. I called him to follow-up and he was apologetic, but I never received any additional information from him. I had identified myself as a Porsche enthusiast, so the seller knew that I was a serious prospective buyer. True, I was in New York and the car is in Atlanta; but I eventually bought a car from a guy in Illinois!
Now, if this fellow is actually going through a divorce at present, he probably has a lot of other stuff on his plate that takes priority over selling a car. No doubt he will sell this car, but the buyer probably won't be a knowledgeable Porsche enthusiast.
Ciao.
Richard
11-28-2004, 09:17 PM
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Richard, thanks for clearing up some of the BS here. I'll do my best to clear up the rest:
I hate to start off my first comments on Rennlist this way, but this user ("Roostie" or is it "Rookie"?) leaves me no choice:
Ted,
Yes, that's my car you're so negatively commenting about.
How do you come up with this BS about someone you don't even know?
I am a Porsche enthusiast, and I have been for 14 years now. I've owned more Porsches than you can count on your fingers and toes. (I hope that one wasn't too difficult for you to comprehend).
First off, you wasted 3 weeks of my time, kept changing your mind about where you want the car inspected (REMEMBER????), then you expected me to wait for you to get your loan cleared (what???) so you could buy the car. Your finances should be taken care of BEFORE you tried to buy the car. I am not a used car dealership. I don't provide financing. Maybe you need your mommy's permission and/or assistance next time you wanna buy a car.........
I lost 2 serious buyers because you, but I still gave you the benefit of the doubt because you sounded serious. You're nothing but a dreamer! You've never even owned a Porsche before (our first coversation on the phone) and you don't even deserve to drive a Porsche. (Ok, maybe an old 924)
I answered every question you had, you lying P O S, but you kept dicking around for more than 3 weeks!
And now you're upset with me, and accuse me of being dishonest?
Pathetic!
I hate to start off my first comments on Rennlist this way, but this user ("Roostie" or is it "Rookie"?) leaves me no choice:
Ted,
Yes, that's my car you're so negatively commenting about.
How do you come up with this BS about someone you don't even know?
I am a Porsche enthusiast, and I have been for 14 years now. I've owned more Porsches than you can count on your fingers and toes. (I hope that one wasn't too difficult for you to comprehend).
First off, you wasted 3 weeks of my time, kept changing your mind about where you want the car inspected (REMEMBER????), then you expected me to wait for you to get your loan cleared (what???) so you could buy the car. Your finances should be taken care of BEFORE you tried to buy the car. I am not a used car dealership. I don't provide financing. Maybe you need your mommy's permission and/or assistance next time you wanna buy a car.........
I lost 2 serious buyers because you, but I still gave you the benefit of the doubt because you sounded serious. You're nothing but a dreamer! You've never even owned a Porsche before (our first coversation on the phone) and you don't even deserve to drive a Porsche. (Ok, maybe an old 924)
I answered every question you had, you lying P O S, but you kept dicking around for more than 3 weeks!
And now you're upset with me, and accuse me of being dishonest?
Pathetic!
11-28-2004, 10:23 PM
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d993,
Sorry we never got a deal done on your M030. I ended up buying a low miles (51K) '95 white coupe that was located in Illinois for $17.5K (there are some pix posted elsewhere in this forum).
My plan is to modify this car into an F stock PCA club racecar. On the other hand, the car is in really nice shape and could be my daily driver for a year or so before dedicating it to track use.
Good luck selling your 968 (and good luck with that other thing too).
Richard
Sorry we never got a deal done on your M030. I ended up buying a low miles (51K) '95 white coupe that was located in Illinois for $17.5K (there are some pix posted elsewhere in this forum).
My plan is to modify this car into an F stock PCA club racecar. On the other hand, the car is in really nice shape and could be my daily driver for a year or so before dedicating it to track use.
Good luck selling your 968 (and good luck with that other thing too).
Richard
11-28-2004, 11:50 PM
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Thanks again, Richard.
I'm sure someone will buy my car soon. It's a very clean example.
When I first started looking at 968's, I wanted a white with black leather M030 968, but no luck back then. In my opinion, all Porsches look best in white with black interior (except for the 951, which has to be Baltic Blue with Linen leather, like a previous one I've owned).
Black is so much harder to keep clean. I have mine detailed before and after I drive it, which is only on weekends.
I'm sure someone will buy my car soon. It's a very clean example.
When I first started looking at 968's, I wanted a white with black leather M030 968, but no luck back then. In my opinion, all Porsches look best in white with black interior (except for the 951, which has to be Baltic Blue with Linen leather, like a previous one I've owned).
Black is so much harder to keep clean. I have mine detailed before and after I drive it, which is only on weekends.
11-29-2004, 04:59 AM
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To David (and to whoever else may be interested),
We agreed on a price, $19,000, and at the same time we agreed that you were supposed to do the following before payment and shipping: e-mail me pictures (option code sticker, odometer, and tread of the front & rear tires), scan and e-mail me the inspection report you claim to have, provide me with the VIN number so I could do a Carfax check, and most importantly, you were to take the car to a Porsche shop for an inspection with compression & leakdown testing at my expense and to a nearby shop with a dyno for a test also at my expense. You never did any of the above, and you never disclosed the salvage title and repaint, which now explains a lot of it, I think. What you did do was later demand an unsecured pre-inspection "deposit" of thousands of dollars.
We spent about an hour all told discussing the car, and you never said a word about the salvage title or repaint. You said it was pristine! But at least if you'd given me the VIN I could have learned about the salvage title on my own.
Contrary to your claim that I kept changing my mind about where to have the car inspected, I found three different independent Porsche repair shops in your area, verified that they do pre-purchase inspections, and gave you the names of all three shops to choose from, so that you could go to the one closest to your house. You were familiar with the Porsche repair facility closest to you, and you were also familiar with the nearby dyno shop that this facility recommended. I sent you contact info for those facilities the same day we agreed on the deal.
I don't know how you got it in your head that I wanted you to finance the car. You said that before and it was as ridiculous then as it is now. As I told you, I wanted to wire you part of the money and simultaneously send you a check from my lender by overnight mail for the remainder; I had the money and the check was 100% ready to go and in my hands within 48 hours of our call in which we agreed upon the price & terms. You balked when I told you that the lender wanted certain information by fax before you cashed the check, including a bill of sale, the current registration, completed title, and a copy of your I.D. I asked you to send the same stuff to me as well. That didn't seem like a lot to ask, and frankly it is the same stuff any fellow ought to see before a sale is closed.
This "three weeks" that you refer to is nonsense. We first spoke in October about the car and I made no offer at that time. On November 3, I called to confirm the car was still available and told you I would secure my loan before making you an offer. On November 3, I got approved for the loan. On November 4 a.m., I called and we agreed on the above price and terms. Within a couple hours, I sent you an e-mail confirming all terms and giving contact info for the inspection/test facilities in your area. You claimed to lose that e-mail, you did not move things forward at all, you never called me and you refused such simple requests as copying your e-mails to my work address.
For 3 reasons, I don't believe you when you say that you lost two serious buyers because of me. First, before we were done, and in order to pressure me into sending you an unsecured pre-inspection deposit, you said a man was coming (from Texas) to pay cash for the car and that you'd take cash from the first person to show up for the car. You explicitly told me you'd sell to anyone putting cash in your hand! Second, when we decided we were through with each other, you bragged to me you had just had the car inspected at Ellis Porsche for a buyer from Portland and that he immediately sent you a $3000 deposit by Pay Pal. Third, I was a serious buyer who was ready to go. But admittedly I might have had a change of heart if I had discovered the salvage title... and my guess is that either the buyers from Texas and Portland never existed, or they backed out when they learned of the salvage title.
Based on my experience I felt I should warn people to be careful in dealing with you. That gave me no joy and I do not wish you ill. I hope that you and another buyer have a mutually satisfactory transaction. My advice to any prospective buyer is that they get appropriate paperwork and verification about the condition of the car, as I tried to do.
Peace and good luck,
- Ted
P.S. I think your comment to me that "you don't deserve to drive a Porsche" is pure comedy. Did you ever see the movie "Kingpin"? Your comment reminds me of the scene when Roy Munson (Woody Harrelson) asks the Amish fellow Ishmael (Dennis Quade) if he can be Ishmael's bowling manager, and after Ishmael turns Roy down and walks away, Roy yells, "you suck, you don't deserve to have a car!"
We agreed on a price, $19,000, and at the same time we agreed that you were supposed to do the following before payment and shipping: e-mail me pictures (option code sticker, odometer, and tread of the front & rear tires), scan and e-mail me the inspection report you claim to have, provide me with the VIN number so I could do a Carfax check, and most importantly, you were to take the car to a Porsche shop for an inspection with compression & leakdown testing at my expense and to a nearby shop with a dyno for a test also at my expense. You never did any of the above, and you never disclosed the salvage title and repaint, which now explains a lot of it, I think. What you did do was later demand an unsecured pre-inspection "deposit" of thousands of dollars.
We spent about an hour all told discussing the car, and you never said a word about the salvage title or repaint. You said it was pristine! But at least if you'd given me the VIN I could have learned about the salvage title on my own.
Contrary to your claim that I kept changing my mind about where to have the car inspected, I found three different independent Porsche repair shops in your area, verified that they do pre-purchase inspections, and gave you the names of all three shops to choose from, so that you could go to the one closest to your house. You were familiar with the Porsche repair facility closest to you, and you were also familiar with the nearby dyno shop that this facility recommended. I sent you contact info for those facilities the same day we agreed on the deal.
I don't know how you got it in your head that I wanted you to finance the car. You said that before and it was as ridiculous then as it is now. As I told you, I wanted to wire you part of the money and simultaneously send you a check from my lender by overnight mail for the remainder; I had the money and the check was 100% ready to go and in my hands within 48 hours of our call in which we agreed upon the price & terms. You balked when I told you that the lender wanted certain information by fax before you cashed the check, including a bill of sale, the current registration, completed title, and a copy of your I.D. I asked you to send the same stuff to me as well. That didn't seem like a lot to ask, and frankly it is the same stuff any fellow ought to see before a sale is closed.
This "three weeks" that you refer to is nonsense. We first spoke in October about the car and I made no offer at that time. On November 3, I called to confirm the car was still available and told you I would secure my loan before making you an offer. On November 3, I got approved for the loan. On November 4 a.m., I called and we agreed on the above price and terms. Within a couple hours, I sent you an e-mail confirming all terms and giving contact info for the inspection/test facilities in your area. You claimed to lose that e-mail, you did not move things forward at all, you never called me and you refused such simple requests as copying your e-mails to my work address.
For 3 reasons, I don't believe you when you say that you lost two serious buyers because of me. First, before we were done, and in order to pressure me into sending you an unsecured pre-inspection deposit, you said a man was coming (from Texas) to pay cash for the car and that you'd take cash from the first person to show up for the car. You explicitly told me you'd sell to anyone putting cash in your hand! Second, when we decided we were through with each other, you bragged to me you had just had the car inspected at Ellis Porsche for a buyer from Portland and that he immediately sent you a $3000 deposit by Pay Pal. Third, I was a serious buyer who was ready to go. But admittedly I might have had a change of heart if I had discovered the salvage title... and my guess is that either the buyers from Texas and Portland never existed, or they backed out when they learned of the salvage title.
Based on my experience I felt I should warn people to be careful in dealing with you. That gave me no joy and I do not wish you ill. I hope that you and another buyer have a mutually satisfactory transaction. My advice to any prospective buyer is that they get appropriate paperwork and verification about the condition of the car, as I tried to do.
Peace and good luck,
- Ted
P.S. I think your comment to me that "you don't deserve to drive a Porsche" is pure comedy. Did you ever see the movie "Kingpin"? Your comment reminds me of the scene when Roy Munson (Woody Harrelson) asks the Amish fellow Ishmael (Dennis Quade) if he can be Ishmael's bowling manager, and after Ishmael turns Roy down and walks away, Roy yells, "you suck, you don't deserve to have a car!"
11-29-2004, 08:09 AM
#7
Not telling a purchaser about a salvage title is a huge no no. Wanting a large deposit and not telling about a salvage title is a bigger no no. I know we have some lawyers on this board, is this just a lack of ethics, or is it fraud?
I don't know either fellow here, so this is just my thoughts on the matter.
I don't know either fellow here, so this is just my thoughts on the matter.
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11-29-2004, 12:19 PM
#8
d993, is this the car you attempted to sell in March 2005 as a wreck?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...&highlight=968
I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks".
It has 71k miles on it, and has a salvage title.
The damage is on the left fender, door, and quarter panel. The rear glass (hatch) and quarter glass are busted. The left rear wheel has some damage but is repairable. Also needs a left rear torsion bar (bent).
I will try to get pics up tomorrow.
Email at ddme58@yahoo.com
Thanks
Regards,
Chris
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...&highlight=968
I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks".
It has 71k miles on it, and has a salvage title.
The damage is on the left fender, door, and quarter panel. The rear glass (hatch) and quarter glass are busted. The left rear wheel has some damage but is repairable. Also needs a left rear torsion bar (bent).
I will try to get pics up tomorrow.
Email at ddme58@yahoo.com
Thanks
Regards,
Chris
11-29-2004, 01:08 PM
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Ted,
Stop wasting your time trying to make me look bad, you moron!
I told you everything about the car, EVERYTHING! In the first 5 minutes of our first conversation I told you it had a previous salvage title, and I gave you the VIN#. If have a problem with alzheimer's at your age, I'm truly sorry!
If you want me to keep going, I can make you look real stupid.
So back off with your BS. I'm sorry you couldn't buy the car. And it's obvious you're still pissed off about it. Get over it pal.
Do you want me to include some previous emails that we sent each other????
Like I said, get over it. Move on.
Stop wasting your time trying to make me look bad, you moron!
I told you everything about the car, EVERYTHING! In the first 5 minutes of our first conversation I told you it had a previous salvage title, and I gave you the VIN#. If have a problem with alzheimer's at your age, I'm truly sorry!
If you want me to keep going, I can make you look real stupid.
So back off with your BS. I'm sorry you couldn't buy the car. And it's obvious you're still pissed off about it. Get over it pal.
Do you want me to include some previous emails that we sent each other????
Like I said, get over it. Move on.
11-29-2004, 09:22 PM
#11
Hey d993, friendly heads up... posting private emails here publicly is against the TOS and a real good way to find yourself on the outside looking in... so please don't.
Roostie, you may be meaning well with your "warning", but you are new here and are making some pretty strong allegations. I would suggest that you also take the time to read the TOS.
There's obviously two sides to this story. I'm not taking sides here, and hope you both will stick around and become a part of this community, but Roostie, you obviously aren't going to be buying D993's car, so please let it go. D993, good luck selling and hopefully your buyer will be happy with his purchase.
Peace, everyone, please?
Regards,
Roostie, you may be meaning well with your "warning", but you are new here and are making some pretty strong allegations. I would suggest that you also take the time to read the TOS.
There's obviously two sides to this story. I'm not taking sides here, and hope you both will stick around and become a part of this community, but Roostie, you obviously aren't going to be buying D993's car, so please let it go. D993, good luck selling and hopefully your buyer will be happy with his purchase.
Peace, everyone, please?
Regards,
11-29-2004, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sh944
Hey d993, friendly heads up... posting private emails here publicly is against the TOS and a real good way to find yourself on the outside looking in... so please don't.
Roostie, you may be meaning well with your "warning", but you are new here and are making some pretty strong allegations. I would suggest that you also take the time to read the TOS.
There's obviously two sides to this story. I'm not taking sides here, and hope you both will stick around and become a part of this community, but Roostie, you obviously aren't going to be buying D993's car, so please let it go. D993, good luck selling and hopefully your buyer will be happy with his purchase.
Peace, everyone, please?
Regards,
Roostie, you may be meaning well with your "warning", but you are new here and are making some pretty strong allegations. I would suggest that you also take the time to read the TOS.
There's obviously two sides to this story. I'm not taking sides here, and hope you both will stick around and become a part of this community, but Roostie, you obviously aren't going to be buying D993's car, so please let it go. D993, good luck selling and hopefully your buyer will be happy with his purchase.
Peace, everyone, please?
Regards,
Scott,
I meant no offense towards anyone.
I'm simply defending myself from some ridiculous and inaccurate accusations.
David
12-02-2004, 05:04 PM
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From d993's wrecked car ad:
"I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks"."
And from his ad on autotrader for a supposedly "different" car with less miles:
"This car has the following factory options: brakes are "BIG BLACKS" with factory cross-drilled rotors, adjustable suspension, OEM polished Porsche Cup 2 wheels 17x7.5 front and 17x9 rear "
Its obvious you pieced this car together and are trying to sell it at a price that only a factory original could command. thats probably why you're only getting 10 grand for it on ebay.
"I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks"."
And from his ad on autotrader for a supposedly "different" car with less miles:
"This car has the following factory options: brakes are "BIG BLACKS" with factory cross-drilled rotors, adjustable suspension, OEM polished Porsche Cup 2 wheels 17x7.5 front and 17x9 rear "
Its obvious you pieced this car together and are trying to sell it at a price that only a factory original could command. thats probably why you're only getting 10 grand for it on ebay.
12-02-2004, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by js1281
From d993's wrecked car ad:
"I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks"."
And from his ad on autotrader for a supposedly "different" car with less miles:
"This car has the following factory options: brakes are "BIG BLACKS" with factory cross-drilled rotors, adjustable suspension, OEM polished Porsche Cup 2 wheels 17x7.5 front and 17x9 rear "
Its obvious you pieced this car together and are trying to sell it at a price that only a factory original could command. thats probably why you're only getting 10 grand for it on ebay.
"I have a wrecked '93 968 6 spd. Black on black, M030 (sport suspension), with 993 wheels, 17x7 and 17x9 , and cross drilled "big blacks"."
And from his ad on autotrader for a supposedly "different" car with less miles:
"This car has the following factory options: brakes are "BIG BLACKS" with factory cross-drilled rotors, adjustable suspension, OEM polished Porsche Cup 2 wheels 17x7.5 front and 17x9 rear "
Its obvious you pieced this car together and are trying to sell it at a price that only a factory original could command. thats probably why you're only getting 10 grand for it on ebay.
That was A DIFFERENT CAR I had before with 71k miles on it. I ended up parting that car out. Would you like the VIN# to that wrecked 968?
Again, to be perfectly clear, DIFFERENT CAR.
Did you see my reply to "Chris" above? Here's what it says before you criticize: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong car Chris. That was a proposed project/track car, but it never evolved, and I ended up parting it out.
