William Green

Gone a bit OT there!

Panzer the strut brace improves handling, but will not sort out any alignment problems you may have. It would actually highlight problems.

When you corner, the whole car's chassis is twisting slightly. In the front (and perhaps at the back, but not so often) the suspension pillars will be moving relative to each other because there's no physical link between them. A strut brace bolts across the top of the engine to the tops of the two suspension posts and makes that physical contact. The result is that the whole front suspension setup becomes a lot more rigid and there will be virtually no movement relative to each side. In effect, you're adding the fourth side to the open box created by the subframe and the two suspension pillars. Which in turn adds to the 'feel' of how the car is cornering.

I have read that strut braces are pretty much useless unless you supplement them with other upgrades..... Who told you that? As I said above if all you do is fit a strut brace you will immediately benefit from better feel and handling.

There is no performance gain other than having a car that handles better which I suppose could be termed a performance gain.

Fit one and see, rather feel the difference. If you get a KLA one, they are not that expensive and don't like it I am sure there are plently of people who would buy it off of you!

flash968

lots of manufacturers have added strut braces over the years - gm had one they called a "monte carlo bar" that was in a number of their cars

damian - read closer - it has the mille miglia wheels there and clearly lists them at 28lbs for the rear cup 1 style as i stated earlier, per confirmation from wheel enhancement

as for the rotors and why porsche insists on doing it that way - you'd have to ask them - why doesn't everybody else? for that matter, there are a number of things that porsche did that seem pointless, redundant, or odd - for example, has anyone figured out that red lug thing yet? why have 2 seperate spring systems on one end of a car as in the case of M030 with torsion bars and coils which have 2 seperate rebound and recovery rates? why use torsion bars at all? this could go on endlessly

i digress - back to the strut brace - damian, again i invite you to continue this outside

the strut brace does reduce quite a bit of cowl flex and camber change - this alone would be a good place to start in getting the front end planted - added understeer? probably - i never checked it - i immediately added more camber as i knew the brace would reduce the camber shift

thom - was that the chrome one, the carbon-fiber sticker one, or the rainbow tape one?

Damian in NJ

Ah, a phone conversation with a vendor who wants to sell heavy wheels by saying they're almost the weight of factory wheels. (Point of disclosure, I've spent over $5,000 with Wheel Enhancement over the years). I guess you can ignore all the other printed documentation that states otherwise. The fact is that stock 968 wheels do not weigh what you claim. Do a 968.net search, I weighed my own Cup 2's a couple of years ago. When I speak I use firsthand or documented knowledge-I don't make it up as I go to suit my own agenda.

flash968

once again - outside please

User 41221

back to the topic at hand, the strut brace effect has that "religious" quality about it, everyone has an opinion and anyone who holds a differing opinion is damned to Hell.

In my opinion, strut braces do have an effect on how a car handles. You can physically feel a difference in the car before and after installation. Backing my opinion is my experience installing strut braces on two different Porsches that I have/had owned and driven, and "empirical testing" that I personally did on the first car that I installed one on. "Empirical" is in quotations as my testing regimen would NOT hold up to scientific scrutiny, so take it for what its worth (it was a static test measuring deflection with or without the bar attached while raising a corner of the car with a jack).

The real test of effectiveness is whether or not your car is quicker around the track with or without one. My guess is that it won't make much, if any difference in track times, altho it might inspire a bit more confidence on the part of a less skilled driver, since the front end will feel a bit more "unified". Most hard core track guys laugh when they see this topic come up.

Regards,

flash968

interesting - most of the cars i used to run with had these things in one fashion or another - chassis bracing was a real issue that a lot of people were spending a lot of time and money on - using roll cages as chassis stiffeners, tie in's to frame members, additional subframes, you name it - never a laughing matter with them - maybe it's one of those "porsche purist" things

i agree with the confidence issue though, and if for no other reason, it seems like a good idea

User 41221

It's definitely not a "Porsche Purist" thing. Most street cars have an abundance of rubber suspension points that will negate the deflection that a strut brace is designed to eliminate, and thats what the track guys are laughing at. Nothing says "poser" to a track guy like a car riding on factory bushings and a strut brace. Well, except for maybe some tribal decals and a coffee can exhaust tip. Or maybe wearing a brand new nomex suit in the pits after your run group at your first DE... lol

Edit: Having said that and then reread it, a bit of clarification is in order. What I said above is what various track junkies have told me directly. I still hold that a strut brace DOES have an effect on most cars, but whether or not it makes you go faster around the track is a different story. Does that make me a poser to a track guy, probably, altho I do have monoballs and a few other goodies on my car that I think increase the effectiveness of the strut brace. I also have proof that I am not nearly as good a driver as I would like to be, regardless of the mods to my car.

Regards,

flash968

roflmao - very good points all -

already got rid of all rubber swaybar bushings and links - i saw a set of after market poly body bushings but now can't find the site - any idea where i saw them?

Jason Judd

Check Racer's Edge...they have the delrin stuff.

flash968

outstanding - thanks - nice stuff - really like the banana arm bushing insert

on the subject of the banana arm - is there an aftermarket one out there that can support the entire load of the rear of the car? i would like to eliminate the torsion bars and just go coils, but i hear the stock cast aluminum arm can't handle it on the steet -

thoughts?

Jason Judd

i would like to eliminate the torsion bars and just go coils, but i hear the stock cast aluminum arm can't handle it on the steet ...
________________________________

Hope you're wrong on that one...I've removed my torsion bars...got 700 lbs springs and Bilstein's on all 4 corners.

richard glickel

Jason,

Didn't the 968's M030 suspension utilize both, coil overs and a rear torsion bar?

BTW, saw your car tonight, it looks like it should be done. Are you selling a Unichip?

Richard

William Green

Jason,

Have you noticed any difference since getting rid of the torsion bars?

700lbs that must be a typo? Or are you winding up someone

flash968

ihad spoken to both scott at kla and karl at racer's edge, who said the lower shock mount is the weak point, and can break if it is doing all the work on a street car (seems not such a problem on a track car) - there seems to be an aftermarket fix though via racer's edge - i'll know more today - i'm hopeful

Jason Judd

Rich,
Sorry to say that I sold the Unichip a while ago..sorry! Yes, the M030 did have helper springs in the rear, but you can't really go in and put on serious springs and make it an adjustable coil-over; the shocks are just too weak to begin with...The front did not have adjustable coil-overs at all.


William,
No typo on the 700 lbs springs along with matched Bilstiens...when we removed the torsion bars, we first went with around 350 # and found it to be too soft. The 700# is definately firm, but I don't drive it on the street too much anyway. I would imagine potholes would make a lasting impression on your body.

Flash,
I forgot to mention we did the Racer's Edge fix when we were doing the suspenion stuff.

Jason