strut brace
04-16-2004, 08:27 PM
#16
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Thom,
Thanks. I was wondering what the cargraphics brace looked like. I like their stuff.
Last night I ordered the KLA strut brace. It looks pretty good from the KLA site pix and, while I'm not current on the rate of exchange $$ vs Euros, it seems that the KLA brace is at least $100 less than the cargraphics part. According to KLA, if I don't like their brace I can return it for a full refund. They seem quite reputable. I'll report on the KLA brace once I receive it.
Richard
Thanks. I was wondering what the cargraphics brace looked like. I like their stuff.
Last night I ordered the KLA strut brace. It looks pretty good from the KLA site pix and, while I'm not current on the rate of exchange $$ vs Euros, it seems that the KLA brace is at least $100 less than the cargraphics part. According to KLA, if I don't like their brace I can return it for a full refund. They seem quite reputable. I'll report on the KLA brace once I receive it.
Richard
04-17-2004, 09:25 AM
#17
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I fitted a KLA strut brace as well.
The one thing to be aware of is that if your geometry is out this could highlight those problems. Overall though it tightens up the front nicely and makes it very pointy going into corners.
For the money fantastic value.
One word of caution once fitted lower the bonnet slowly by hand to ensure you have adequate clearance!
The one thing to be aware of is that if your geometry is out this could highlight those problems. Overall though it tightens up the front nicely and makes it very pointy going into corners.
For the money fantastic value.
One word of caution once fitted lower the bonnet slowly by hand to ensure you have adequate clearance!
04-18-2004, 03:49 PM
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not at all - no interest in "taking over" anything - i just don't hold the porsche and the designers of the 968 on a pedestal with undying reverence like a few others do - there are a long list of bad ideas in the car and a lot of other things that just weren't thought out fully - the program was cancelled and resurrected after all - there was no budget to really design it the way it could have been - i see it as a good platform from which to build a good car and nothing more - i bring in ideas that come from other manufacturers with different philosophies of how to build a car - that seems to offend a few - oh well
04-18-2004, 11:55 PM
#22
"a long list of bad ideas in the car ", "i see it as a good platform from which to build a good car" ???
Gimme a break. I agree that there are people that get a bit carried away with the "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to their 968 (altho I find that they typcally reside on other web boards... the folks here are cool, imo), but that hardly justifies saying that the car is a rolling wreck. That sounds more like the work of a troll thats trying to disrupt the boards here.
Regards,
Gimme a break. I agree that there are people that get a bit carried away with the "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to their 968 (altho I find that they typcally reside on other web boards... the folks here are cool, imo), but that hardly justifies saying that the car is a rolling wreck. That sounds more like the work of a troll thats trying to disrupt the boards here.
Regards,
04-19-2004, 12:42 PM
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scott-nope, no trolls here and i'm not interested in disrupting anything - also, i didn't call it a rolling wreck - actually it is a good platform - that's why i chose it - it just isn't finished - i'm looking to do what porshe diddn't, couldn't or wouldn't in completing the development of the car - in doing so i am not limiting myself to porsche products or designs as they are often not the best stuff available
bruce, sorry you feel that way, but when i have something to say or contribute, it will be said, it will be said with respect, and it will not be in any form of personally directed attacks, unlike what i have recently seen here by exactly the same people who were troublemakers on the other site
back to the topic - will - glad you got the kla - how do you like it? did you find that you were able, like most of us, to improve the alignment specs, which were previously set to accommodate the chassis flex and average drivers?
bruce, sorry you feel that way, but when i have something to say or contribute, it will be said, it will be said with respect, and it will not be in any form of personally directed attacks, unlike what i have recently seen here by exactly the same people who were troublemakers on the other site
back to the topic - will - glad you got the kla - how do you like it? did you find that you were able, like most of us, to improve the alignment specs, which were previously set to accommodate the chassis flex and average drivers?
04-19-2004, 01:02 PM
#24
People who give out incorrect information, or encourage others to make questionable mods to their cars, deserve to be questioned and have their opinions examined.
I'll just make two examples. Several times on the other board flash has been giving out this information-17" 968 wheels are heavy, in fact he has given 27 lbs as the weight for the rears. (Not sure Cup 1 or 2, it doesn't matter.) I hope no one has gone out and paid for a new set, thinking he needs to reduce the weight.
A simple search would show (including links that have been posted on the threads he pointed this out) that the most you'll see listed for either Cup 1's or 2's is 23 lbs for rears. Several sites list them even lighter. I'd posted years ago that mine were around 23. Now I know we'll hear 'I read it somewhere, must check that out, maybe in a for sale ad, must look at my material, gotta check my books . . .' but regardless he is wrong.
This cab 'ballast' issue (vibration dampener) is another joke. To save 47 lbs (or 45 or 42, don't remember) people are removing this with his encouragement. As if Porsche put that in there with no reason or chassis dyno testing. (Porsche spent two years engineering the 944S2 cab before sending production off to ASC). Yes, it does save weight to remove it. Will removing this have deleterious effects on a cab body over time? We don't know for sure, but I'm not risking it. flash says that we can see his tailights go off in the distance-yup, we may be seeing tailights popping out of many 968 cab's that have had the dampener removed going down the line. Frankly, I'm noting everyone who has done this mod. I'd never buy one of the cars in the future, nor would I recommend anyone else do so.
And flash, go to the 993 board here and give them your opinions on cast vs cross drilled rotors. I look forward to seeing how you would answer people about that.
I'll just make two examples. Several times on the other board flash has been giving out this information-17" 968 wheels are heavy, in fact he has given 27 lbs as the weight for the rears. (Not sure Cup 1 or 2, it doesn't matter.) I hope no one has gone out and paid for a new set, thinking he needs to reduce the weight.
A simple search would show (including links that have been posted on the threads he pointed this out) that the most you'll see listed for either Cup 1's or 2's is 23 lbs for rears. Several sites list them even lighter. I'd posted years ago that mine were around 23. Now I know we'll hear 'I read it somewhere, must check that out, maybe in a for sale ad, must look at my material, gotta check my books . . .' but regardless he is wrong.
This cab 'ballast' issue (vibration dampener) is another joke. To save 47 lbs (or 45 or 42, don't remember) people are removing this with his encouragement. As if Porsche put that in there with no reason or chassis dyno testing. (Porsche spent two years engineering the 944S2 cab before sending production off to ASC). Yes, it does save weight to remove it. Will removing this have deleterious effects on a cab body over time? We don't know for sure, but I'm not risking it. flash says that we can see his tailights go off in the distance-yup, we may be seeing tailights popping out of many 968 cab's that have had the dampener removed going down the line. Frankly, I'm noting everyone who has done this mod. I'd never buy one of the cars in the future, nor would I recommend anyone else do so.
And flash, go to the 993 board here and give them your opinions on cast vs cross drilled rotors. I look forward to seeing how you would answer people about that.
04-19-2004, 01:38 PM
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damian- once again, if you have something to say to me like this - send me an email - i'll be happy to respond, but don't do it here
here is a link to the wheel weights - the factory cup 1s are 1 lb lighter than the mille millia, according to wheel enhancement
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars/WheelWts.html
as for the cab ballast and "research" - show me - we've talked to the preople who did the conversion - we've done the mod - it works - no problems - don't do it if you don't want - no problem - see you in my rear view mirror
as for the cast rotor vs cross-drilled thing - aren't they all cast? - if what you really meant to say was solid vs crossdrilled, i can stack up just as many guys with cars other than porsche (yes, there are such things believe it or not) who will tell you cross drilled is fine and problem free, at least for street use, which is the only use i am commenting on when it comes to rotors
can we now get back to the strut brace topic and stop these silly personal attacks?
here is a link to the wheel weights - the factory cup 1s are 1 lb lighter than the mille millia, according to wheel enhancement
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars/WheelWts.html
as for the cab ballast and "research" - show me - we've talked to the preople who did the conversion - we've done the mod - it works - no problems - don't do it if you don't want - no problem - see you in my rear view mirror
as for the cast rotor vs cross-drilled thing - aren't they all cast? - if what you really meant to say was solid vs crossdrilled, i can stack up just as many guys with cars other than porsche (yes, there are such things believe it or not) who will tell you cross drilled is fine and problem free, at least for street use, which is the only use i am commenting on when it comes to rotors
can we now get back to the strut brace topic and stop these silly personal attacks?
04-19-2004, 02:11 PM
#26
flash, the link you posted to wheels weights shows no 968 wheels. It does show 993 Cup wheels, in 7.5 and 9 x 17" sizes. (The same as 968 optional 968 17" wheels.) And they list them at 18 and 19.5, a huge difference between what you've posted again and again.
As for the cab vibration dampener, I'd suggest you check with Porsche, not a conversation with someone from ASC. As I said, I think anyone is crazy to do so without knowing the long term effects on chassis dynamics and chassis damage. Remove the spare, remove the compressor, change to CS manual mirros and manual windows, great. Put on a carbon fiber hood and trunk lid, great. Take out your rear parcel shelf, cool. Remove something from the chassis, and wish that nothing happens? Not for me.
Re: cross drilling cast rotors, or using rotors that have holes cast in them, your posts on the other board say that 'casting' the hole in a rotor offers no benefit over a rotor that has had holes machine drilled into it. Why does Porsche insist on doing it the cast way for 968 MO30, and all other high performance brake systems? Run that flag over the 993 board, see what they say.
As for personal attacks, you mentioned 'troublemakers' before I even made a post here on this thread. And you can see how thrilled people are that you've visited here.
As for the cab vibration dampener, I'd suggest you check with Porsche, not a conversation with someone from ASC. As I said, I think anyone is crazy to do so without knowing the long term effects on chassis dynamics and chassis damage. Remove the spare, remove the compressor, change to CS manual mirros and manual windows, great. Put on a carbon fiber hood and trunk lid, great. Take out your rear parcel shelf, cool. Remove something from the chassis, and wish that nothing happens? Not for me.
Re: cross drilling cast rotors, or using rotors that have holes cast in them, your posts on the other board say that 'casting' the hole in a rotor offers no benefit over a rotor that has had holes machine drilled into it. Why does Porsche insist on doing it the cast way for 968 MO30, and all other high performance brake systems? Run that flag over the 993 board, see what they say.
As for personal attacks, you mentioned 'troublemakers' before I even made a post here on this thread. And you can see how thrilled people are that you've visited here.
04-19-2004, 02:22 PM
#28
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I put forward my views on the cab dampening issue on 968.net a few days ago and don't want it really to rear its head again.
Interestingly 911 & Porsche World magazine recently stated that they had spoken to Porsche who confimed that it was there to act as a vibration dampener. Enough said!
But then again this guy in the pub said ...................................
Interestingly 911 & Porsche World magazine recently stated that they had spoken to Porsche who confimed that it was there to act as a vibration dampener. Enough said!
But then again this guy in the pub said ...................................
04-19-2004, 02:36 PM
#29
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back on topic
Yes, back to strut braces.
I have read that strut braces are pretty much useless unless you supplement them with other upgrades...would that be arder control arm bushings ?...sway bar bushings ?
I suppose a strut brace can't 'hurt' and may help with alignment...but outside of that do they result in any significant performance gains if not paired with other upgrades?
Would the result be even more understeer?
Why is it that manufacturers, even manufacturers of high performance vehicles, don't put strut braces on their cars as stock?
I have read that strut braces are pretty much useless unless you supplement them with other upgrades...would that be arder control arm bushings ?...sway bar bushings ?
I suppose a strut brace can't 'hurt' and may help with alignment...but outside of that do they result in any significant performance gains if not paired with other upgrades?
Would the result be even more understeer?
Why is it that manufacturers, even manufacturers of high performance vehicles, don't put strut braces on their cars as stock?