Turbo 3.6 valuation (complicated case...)
05-08-2017, 04:53 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm really sorry to hear. Cobalt is probable best in terms of being in tune with the narrow market for these cars. Suggest you send him a PM.
With respect to an opening price, you can always lower it if you don't get any bites.
With respect to an opening price, you can always lower it if you don't get any bites.
05-08-2017, 05:10 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
I'm wondering if it's possible to write down a loss on a car if it's not a capital gain or loss. If you sell a car for a profit, my understanding of tax code is that it's counted as income, not a capital gain (but I'm an engineer, not a CPA).
I personally do't understand the paint/re-paint thing. I'm not into "patina" or "road-worn" stuff so I'd gladly buy a car with a quality re-paint (which I did) over the sketchy water-based metallic paint coming out of the factory in that time period. I understand that you paid a premium for what you thought was a car that was in original condition. I don't blame you for being upset.
Anyway, back to your original question.
From the discussions here by those who make it a hobby to follow the market, I'd say you are in for a bit of a rough ride. The market has cooled off somewhat.
In your favor is the low mileage. The re-paint thing will make the premium buyers unhappy.
My un-scientific guess is your car tops out at $200k.
It's a nice car. I'd be inclined to keep it but I realize these are emotional things.
I personally do't understand the paint/re-paint thing. I'm not into "patina" or "road-worn" stuff so I'd gladly buy a car with a quality re-paint (which I did) over the sketchy water-based metallic paint coming out of the factory in that time period. I understand that you paid a premium for what you thought was a car that was in original condition. I don't blame you for being upset.
Anyway, back to your original question.
From the discussions here by those who make it a hobby to follow the market, I'd say you are in for a bit of a rough ride. The market has cooled off somewhat.
In your favor is the low mileage. The re-paint thing will make the premium buyers unhappy.
My un-scientific guess is your car tops out at $200k.
It's a nice car. I'd be inclined to keep it but I realize these are emotional things.
05-09-2017, 01:14 AM
#7
Banned
I Pursue with the Lawyer "IF" you have a Real Case....
Repaint KILLS value on a Car like That Unfortunately, A Red 993tt has been bouncing around for a year or two, 6k miles, started at $239, Total Respray, last seen on Ebay $169k.
Repaint KILLS value on a Car like That Unfortunately, A Red 993tt has been bouncing around for a year or two, 6k miles, started at $239, Total Respray, last seen on Ebay $169k.
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05-09-2017, 11:48 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
I'm curious. Can I ask for clarification on which gasket you are referring here?
I don't think there is a difference between your 3.6 & my '91 3.3, but I have a gasket that starts between the lower forward corner of the rear side tail lights, and goes forward to the fender well,... but that is between the Qtr panel & the side rear bumper piece. The lower valence you speak of is below the bumper. So I'm confused on which two pieces this gasket intersects.
And I also apologize in advance that I am not that great at market watching / predicting,... so I'll stay out of the valuation on this one.
=Steve
05-09-2017, 04:19 PM
#11
Banned
Well He's got the $$ & I think you have a legit Case, He ABSOLUTELY Knows how Important Paintwork is!! I sold him a low mile car years ago & he demanded $3k for scratches under the front nose, Lol, I actually thought about it, But found out he does that a lot as part of his BS & said NO.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...isclosure.html
I Only state Facts on RL & Rarely Talk Sh*t about anyone, But There is NO Good or Fair deals with him & have heard MANY True stories that are all Bad.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...isclosure.html
I Only state Facts on RL & Rarely Talk Sh*t about anyone, But There is NO Good or Fair deals with him & have heard MANY True stories that are all Bad.
05-11-2017, 10:55 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
This is really quite unfortunate.
So hard to put a value on these cars. Prices are all over the place. The low mileage helps but the respray no doubt hurts. It appears to be a top quality job.
Is there any chance the car was resprayed at the factory? I have seen instances where cars have gone back after several attempts to correct issues be resprayed at the factory. This was the last of the 26 stage paint process and I know of a handful of cars with factory original paint that have some panels reading low double digits. It is not common but happened more than we realize. Also some cars come in damaged at the ports and are reworked here before being sold. This is actually quite common. So a lot of this has to come into question. Was Zermatt a PTS or just special order? I know JohnMCM had a 3.6 in Zermatt in Australia and I have seen a few others. In any case it is a rare and great color.
I would have it verified that it has in fact been resprayed. A trained eye can tell as much if not more than a meter. Seams and stickers will tell a lot. You will need to take the car partially apart to tell what was done and how well. A factory paint will always show differently no matter how good a job unless the car is completely gutted stripped down and all stickers etc reapplied. Even then there is usually something that will give it away.
Irrespective of all of that there is no doubt the market has softened a bit due to a glut of product on the market. There are a lot of cars for sale, most of which are not nearly as nice or have hidden issues weighing down on the entire market. Yet Hagerty will claim that since January a true #1 car is worth $345k finding a buyer right now will be tough especially if it has been repainted.
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...-Carrera_Turbo
As a data point on recent sales a 94 3.6T that I believe had mostly original paint and had significant interior modifications done by the dealership using factory parts (not to everyones taste) and about the same mileage as yours sold for $267k recently. I would guess if it was all original it might have brought a bit more but it was a standard color and other than the upgrades done by the dealership had little else to make it command more. I know of others that have sold for more and less in varying condition and mileage.
I don't want to place a number on your car without seeing it in person. I still know of a number of interested parties looking for these cars but want the "right" color combo and haven't found what they are looking for in over 3 years. Finding the right buyer is never easy but i don't see why the car won't sell considering there are very few with original clean paint and the lack of original paint doesn't seem to stop some from selling.
Lesson learned by all of us don't trust anyone when buying these cars. Always check everything no matter how well known or good looking the car is. I see 1 out of 50 cars lately that I look at that are as represented and some gorgeous cars with very well covered up issues are not uncommon.
So hard to put a value on these cars. Prices are all over the place. The low mileage helps but the respray no doubt hurts. It appears to be a top quality job.
Is there any chance the car was resprayed at the factory? I have seen instances where cars have gone back after several attempts to correct issues be resprayed at the factory. This was the last of the 26 stage paint process and I know of a handful of cars with factory original paint that have some panels reading low double digits. It is not common but happened more than we realize. Also some cars come in damaged at the ports and are reworked here before being sold. This is actually quite common. So a lot of this has to come into question. Was Zermatt a PTS or just special order? I know JohnMCM had a 3.6 in Zermatt in Australia and I have seen a few others. In any case it is a rare and great color.
I would have it verified that it has in fact been resprayed. A trained eye can tell as much if not more than a meter. Seams and stickers will tell a lot. You will need to take the car partially apart to tell what was done and how well. A factory paint will always show differently no matter how good a job unless the car is completely gutted stripped down and all stickers etc reapplied. Even then there is usually something that will give it away.
Irrespective of all of that there is no doubt the market has softened a bit due to a glut of product on the market. There are a lot of cars for sale, most of which are not nearly as nice or have hidden issues weighing down on the entire market. Yet Hagerty will claim that since January a true #1 car is worth $345k finding a buyer right now will be tough especially if it has been repainted.
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...-Carrera_Turbo
As a data point on recent sales a 94 3.6T that I believe had mostly original paint and had significant interior modifications done by the dealership using factory parts (not to everyones taste) and about the same mileage as yours sold for $267k recently. I would guess if it was all original it might have brought a bit more but it was a standard color and other than the upgrades done by the dealership had little else to make it command more. I know of others that have sold for more and less in varying condition and mileage.
I don't want to place a number on your car without seeing it in person. I still know of a number of interested parties looking for these cars but want the "right" color combo and haven't found what they are looking for in over 3 years. Finding the right buyer is never easy but i don't see why the car won't sell considering there are very few with original clean paint and the lack of original paint doesn't seem to stop some from selling.
Lesson learned by all of us don't trust anyone when buying these cars. Always check everything no matter how well known or good looking the car is. I see 1 out of 50 cars lately that I look at that are as represented and some gorgeous cars with very well covered up issues are not uncommon.