Staffan

Installation went fine (sorry no camera).

The acctuator (solenoid) sits (pressure wise) between IC and Wastegate.
I took the smaller and also lower hose on the left side of the IC, unplugged it from the IC and connected it to the acctuator "out" instead. Took a new hose and connected it between acctuator "in" and the IC.

Physically I bolted the acctuator on to the plastic protection shield covering the fuses, on the left rear of the engine bay.

I measure boost at the hose connected to the 69EZ panel as described above. It seems to be working fine, when the EBC is in mode "off" (using stock wastegate spring) I get 0.72-0.74 sustained boost on third gear which seems to be right.
I will run a sustained boost of 0.9 bar when a managed to calibrate the controller, I am currently running 0.85 bar.

The wiring took some time to figure out, but if you get rid of the "casette holder" behind the handbrake you will find a round "soft" spot, it's a rubber thing that you can punch a hole in. You need to remove the plastic cover underneath the car to find the exit hole.

I have some new problems though (overboosting being one of them), will do some more testing and report back.

But the car is faster than ever, fantastic feeling, pulls hard on third gear. Couldn't stop driving last night, I was going back and forth on the same highway stretch until I met a police car for the third time, probably the same car trying to catch up (the only have 1 car patrolling at night in this area), I floored it took another route home and didn't see them again.

To be continued.

EDIT: hopefully made things a bit clearer

Staffan

Weired, thought I posted some more feedback allready, anyway time for me to finish-up this monolog.

Found that hoses on the acctuator wasn't tight enough, everything is now fine. Running 0.9 bar boost, little less on 2nd and 3rd, dead on at 4th and a little bit more on 5th.

KeithC2Turto

Staffan,

NO, NO, NO!

The 69EZ vac line is not a good place to take a boost reading. On most C2T's it is my understanding that the 69EZ is taped into the area between the Turbo Compressor and the Throtle plate - but before the manifold section.

This area gets boost spikes when the throtle is slamed closed and the boost does not have anyware to go for a sec till it is blead off by the Recirculating Air valve (CBV).

I read that late in production they moved the EZ to the manifold section to isolated it from boost spikes that can rupter the membrane in it so you "might" be ok.

You want to hook in to the area after the throtle plate which is part of the manifold section!!!!

Again some of the later C2T's moved the 69 EZ to the manifold section to isolate it from the boost spikes that come when the throtle is slamed shut.

This is the same reasion that you don't want to tap the EZ line unless it has been moved - boost spikes!

If you take the intercooler off you will see an apx 1 inch pipe off of the intake manifold. This is the best place to mesure boost, take a signel for your EBC and hook your 69Ez to keep from blowing it up at 1 bar, and relocate your overboost switch to.

There is even a big test fiting with a plug there that you might adapt as your source for boost signels.

You will see that the manifold section is hooked to the Vacume Limiter (some call it a deacceleration valve - on left side of motor, 3" round brass collored thing with large tubes on one side and a small vac tube on the other side.)

You could hook into the large center tube off the Vac Limiter if you want. It is the big tube that doesn NOT go up to the intercooler.

Also, the AAV has a tube that is hooked into the manifold section. It is the tube that dose NOT go up to the intercooler.

If you are replumbing your car, I would also move the over boost switch to the manifold section to. This will help to keep you from trigering it when you lift the throtle in a corner just a bit and the boost spikes, killing your motor, upsetting your car. May even keep it from trigering when you are runing 1 bar boost. I had to go to an adjustable overboost switch.

Just my opinion but I would never tie into the brake or headlight system for a reading. When these systems have a demand for vac I would guess it would weaken the signel. Heard of one person getting funny boost reading for his car doing this. Many have been happy though.

As the the TIAL with a .8 bar + .2 bar spring combnation. Be carfull! If you have stock headers you might be ok but Tial WG's deliver a higher boost than there rating on Porsche because we have a weak WG signel. My .7 bar spring with B&B headers delivers .85 bar boost. A .9 bar spring on a stock exaust might get you close to 1 bar. A 1 bar spring combo is likely to deliver around 1.15 bar boost on a header equiped car. Can you say boom?

If I was building a car I would try to get the right spring combo. The fail rate is lower than an EBC and it is cheaper. (I have an EVC) The EVC's can deliver a bit better boost reponse form the charts I have seen by there advertizers.

Hope this helps. I am not an expert so please feel free to double check my advice.

Also very important to check you A/F curve on a dyno if running 1 bar. Usally ok on the street of c0 is set at 3% and runing a stock turbo. If tracking it is critical to check you A/F's.

If you need more fuel have the CIS modifed to increas the range of the metering plate travel. To test if this will work, try riching you co on the dyno (idle will be to fat then). If you get more fuel at top end, you still have travel and extra fuel capacaty available to you via increasing the arm travel (casting tab near metering pin).

Keith
91 C2T with suspention, brake and motor kits.!!!

Staffan

Hi Keith
Thanks for your good post, lots of valuable information!

So what you suggest is to start checking where my EZ hose is connected, if it's above the throttle plate, I might have a problem (I will explain the "might" later), let me check this and get back.

In the meantime here are some information that might be useful:
- I have replaced my stock CBV with one made by Forge.
- Since I took care of the leaks at the acctuator I haven't had any fuel cut outs
- My goal is to run 0.9 bar sustained boost on 4th gear
- When testing I was running 0.95 sustained boost on 5th gear, the "peak" value on my EBC never went above 1.05.

I am kind of hoping that my CBV might be a good one, taking care of most part of the problem, what do you think about my wishful thought ?
One reason for my "wishful thinking" is that I read about people having spikes at 1.2 bar when getting 1.0 bar sustained boost, and this being considered "normal".

Where have you connected your 69EZ hose, at the 1 inch pipe you describe ?

Where haver you connected, or do you recommend connecting the overboost switch ?

And yes, I do worry about my A/F curve and the health of my CIS system, will test my CIS system during the winter. In the meantime I have cranked up the mixture.

Let me check my plumbing and get back.
Thanks again!

Later
Staffan

Staffan

Here is an update.

I followed the hose from the EZ module, I think but I am not 100% sure, that it's connected to the manifold. I couldn't see but feel with my hand, that it's connected to something about 5-10 inches to the left of where the vacum limiter is connected to the manifold. Could it be that I am lucky having a car where the EZ hose is connected at the right spot ?

I won't be able to say for sure without removing the IC, it's not hard removing it, but it's damn hard getting it back over that orange o-ring.

Where is/where the EZ hose connected on your car, I might be able to rule out that my hose is connected at the same place ?

Somewhere I have picture of 964 engine without an IC, perhaps that could be helpful here. Will look for it tomorrow.

Thanks!
Staffan

KeithC2Turto

S,

Dont think the CBV has any impact on anything we are discussing unless you are thinkinging it might keep the boost spikes down.

My over boost switch is still conected to the I/C but it is adjustable, remote, and set for 1.4 bar. Not my first choice. Just to lazy to do the plumbing. (I will, I will)

I have not checked where my EZ is conected, again to lazy to take the I/C off again. However I will be doin'g it soon as I want to hook my programable fueler system back up.

Took it off because I was trying to sell my car and did not want to have to explane it to someone.

It is prety cool, I can map my A/F at any rpm or load (vac/boost). I set it up using a Motec wide band moniter. I had my mechanic sit in the pass seat with a lap top. He thought it was prety cool to be able to adjust A/F's at different rpms and at different loads and boost levels on a CIS car. It uses the Andial Fueler method but I had my own box built to control it.

Befor I set it up I could see the A/F go instantly lean when I pushed down the throtle. Some times as low as 17/1 till the CIS caught up. With it I can run 14.5 at cruse and idle. With it as soon as I accel I go to 13/1. Also don't have to wate till .5 bar for exter fuel and can add more fuel at the top end up to the capacaty of the CIS... Sorry for the detour.

I will be replumbing my EZ if it is not on the manifold section as it as about $1000 to replace if you blow it up.

.9 bar is concidered a safe level (per Bruce Andersons book) for the track if the CO is up. Dont expect an EVC to be able to take you any lower. It can only take you higher. Thus you may need a lower spring and use the EVC to bring you back up to .9 bar it that is your goal.

Will try to check where my EZ is plumbed soon.

Keith

KeithC2Turto

S,

Checked the plumbing of my HKS - EVC IV on my car and on the factory lit.

It takes a vac/boost "signel" from the manifold section by tieing into a small 4mm line that is sourced from the manifold section (same place as the WUR gets its boost signel). This small line also goes to the top of the CBV and tee's over the the face of the de-accel valve. This boost "signel" is what is mesured and is the boost displaed on the unit boost gauge.

The EVC Actuator gets its "presure source" for controling the WG from a line off the InterCooler. (The intake section before the throtle plate.) It is the smaller of the two tubes off the left side of the IC.

Then a line comes off the EVC Acutator and goes to the top of the WasteGate to control its operation. It passes air from the presurized IC area and sends it to the top of the WG as needed to keep it closed so the boost increases above the level that the boost spring would start to open. It then realeases presure as needed, via the EVC Actuator's built in steper motor, to maintain boost at the desired level.

Now the interesting part -- my EZ is plumbed into the line after the Actuator on the line to the WastGate. NOT GOOD!

This means that not only is my EZ geting its boost signel from before the manifold section which would be prone to boost spikes, but it is being effected by the EVC opertion also. I could be loosing boost to my EZ at the most important time, when the Actuator starts to close down under full boost!

Must fix ASAP. Thanks for the thread!!!

Keith

Staffan

Ooops..
Well I should thank you really.

Anyway, I will remove my IC and have a look.
I have uploaded a picture of a 964 engine without IC on my website, in case we need to explain where stuff are. You find it here:
http://hem.bredband.net/b223799/964.html

Time to get my hands dirty..

Staffan

Well, I removed the IC.
Keith, click on the link in previous post.

My EZ hose is connected to the manifold left side.
It hooks into a pipe which is located about 10 inches to left of where the vac limiter is connected to the manifold. I should be ok, right ?

I will look for a place to put the overboost switch. Since I don't have a problem at the moment it needs to be very straight forward to do, otherwise I will leave it the way it is. I will only run 0.9 bar, so boost spikes shouldn't be a problem for me I think, at least I had no problems while testing.

Later
Staffan

KeithC2Turto

Staffan,

EXCELLENT!!!

The pic is great!

Sounds like you EZ "IS" hooked to the manifold section and not the Intercoler section like some of the C2Turbos!!

This should mean that you have a good boost signel for runing a boost gauge and probably you boost controler.

I'd use this as a "signel" only and not a "supply" for presure for your EBC to pressurize the WG to force it to hold boost longer.

$$$ Can yoy take a pic of where the EZ does attach to the manifold & what the fitting looks like???

It would be very helpful as I want to plumb mine the same.

Would be nice to get the word out to other C2T owners on the EZ conection and how to plumb it like the factory latter did...

Keith

KeithC2Turto

S,

At the top of this page you said:

"I took the smaller and also lower hose on the left side of the IC, unplugged it from the IC and connected it to the acctuator "out" instead. Took a new hose and connected it between acctuator "in" and the IC."
-----

You did not hook both of the Acuator IN & OUT to the IC like it reads did you?

Don't you mean that you hooked the line from the IC to the actuator "IN" (a presure source supply) and ran a line from the Actuator "OUT" to the top of the WG ( supplys presure to the WG to rase the boost level).

K

KeithC2Turto

S,

I am not an expert and am still learning.

Looking at a 91 Service book for the C2T it looks like the stock WG top is plumbed to the Manifold and the WG bottom is plumbed to the WG.

Under normal open throtle conditions this would keep the presures on each side equal and the spring would maintain the deisred boost level.

However, when the throtle is slamed closed, the presure on the top would go to vac from the motor sucking for air and the presure from the I/C would work toward pushing the WG open to counter act some of the spring tenison and reduce boost.

I need to run my lines again to see how they are plumbed and think about this for a bit and how the EVC effects this. Will get back soon.

Keith

KeithC2Turto

S,

Correction: on a stock car the top of the WG is plumbed to atmosphere. The digram in my 91 tec supplement makes it look like the WG top is plumbed into the manifold. WG would not open if it was that way.

The top of the WG is where we are adding presure via the EVC to increase boost.

Looks like I will need to do some replumbing.

1) My EZ is plumbed into the line from the EVC Actuator and before the WG. This is very wrong and I will replumb it to the manifold section like your car.

I think I see where your EZ is plumbed to . It looks like it is into the left side of the manifold. (My WG is hooked to it presently.)

I may change my WG supply but I have to think it through.

My WG side port is plumbed to the manifold section. The 91 digram I have shows it plumbed to the intercooler as a source of boost pressure.

Both should work fine but I suspect that having it at the IC, when the throttle is slammed shut the WG will loose the boost pressure that is trying to open it immediately.

If it is on the IC section (like the factory shows) it might get pressure a bit longer and might even get a boost spike to push open the wg some and help release some of the exaust pressure for a sec. Not sure if I will change this. May not realy have any effect. Also, I think the EVC learnes the boost curve and adapts around it any way.

K

Staffan

Both descriptions are correct actually, yours less complicated.

Staffan

I agree, I don't have a camera at the moment, I'll see what I can do.