Handling
03-28-2014, 05:02 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Handling
So.... guys-
Having never driven (or ridden) in any other 964 Turbos, I'm curious how your cars handle compared to mine. I'm sure this will be tough to communicate in a written forum, but what the heck.
I'm curious about how much it reacts to throttle input - either lifting or putting the pedal down on, say, 270 degree highway entrance/exit ramps and such.
If you are going ~30-40 mph, how much does the nose turn in (oversteer) when you fully lift?
What about going about ~30 mph around the ramp and you step on it? (understeer)
I don't even know how to "measure" this - but maybe with subjective terms such as "barely noticeable"? "Very noticeable"? "pronounced"? "Drastic"???
I don't know....
In both case I would say it "very noticeable" in my car. If I lift completely* then it will require a slight correction of the wheel. If I accelerate I can definitely feel it push and again requires a slight correction of the wheel to hold my line. Car has H&R coilovers, all bushings in good shape, Michelin Super Sport tires at 35/43 F/R psi. I go a psi lower than what I understand to be suggested inflation to soften the ride a smidge. LOL.
*To be clear I _AM_ very aware of rule #1 when driving in a 911.
I know these cars are supposed to do all this - just curious about the _degree_ to which this is supposed to happen. Hopefully that makes sense....
Having never driven (or ridden) in any other 964 Turbos, I'm curious how your cars handle compared to mine. I'm sure this will be tough to communicate in a written forum, but what the heck.
I'm curious about how much it reacts to throttle input - either lifting or putting the pedal down on, say, 270 degree highway entrance/exit ramps and such.
If you are going ~30-40 mph, how much does the nose turn in (oversteer) when you fully lift?
What about going about ~30 mph around the ramp and you step on it? (understeer)
I don't even know how to "measure" this - but maybe with subjective terms such as "barely noticeable"? "Very noticeable"? "pronounced"? "Drastic"???
I don't know....
In both case I would say it "very noticeable" in my car. If I lift completely* then it will require a slight correction of the wheel. If I accelerate I can definitely feel it push and again requires a slight correction of the wheel to hold my line. Car has H&R coilovers, all bushings in good shape, Michelin Super Sport tires at 35/43 F/R psi. I go a psi lower than what I understand to be suggested inflation to soften the ride a smidge. LOL.
*To be clear I _AM_ very aware of rule #1 when driving in a 911.
I know these cars are supposed to do all this - just curious about the _degree_ to which this is supposed to happen. Hopefully that makes sense....
Last edited by urquattro20Vt; 03-28-2014 at 07:18 PM.
03-28-2014, 07:10 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
It's really hard to describe, and it's all relative. But the short answer is, I think your car is behaving totally normally.
My 964 Turbo has Bilsteins with H&R reds, standard bushings and sways. When driving quickly on the street the car dives, squats and rolls more than my girlfriend's bone stock 996 C2. The chassis "compliance" is very evident but isn't excessive, the car is fairly comfortable on city streets. However it would be inadequate for serious track use. I would describe that a full lift off the throttle in the middle of a 70mph corner in 3rd gear does require more than a ~10 degrees of steering adjustment, i.e. it is "very noticeable."
On the other hand, my 993 GT2 conversion with PSS10s, GT2 uprights and sways and r comp tires, is incredibly composed when pushed. The dive, roll and squat seems like it has been reduced by an order of magnitude (in other words, the "limits" are much higher) Steering adjustments are still required, but are minute compared to the 964. It feels like an utter race car compared to the 964.
I think you can absolutely get your 964 to handle like a race car, (dialing out all of that movement in the chassis, making it grip better, etc) but then you start losing out on its street-ability. Also, I think much of that movement you describe is very consistent with the character of the car and the era from which it comes.
I enjoy driving my 964 more on the street- at lower speeds it is more communicative and requires more attention and "work" to maintain a certain average. The 993 takes less effort because it has so much more potential, the engine is more responsive and powerful, and to get the chassis near its limits, you have to be traveling substantially faster. You can see a trend here... newer performance cars have such high limits that it's really tough to enjoy them on the street.
My 964 Turbo has Bilsteins with H&R reds, standard bushings and sways. When driving quickly on the street the car dives, squats and rolls more than my girlfriend's bone stock 996 C2. The chassis "compliance" is very evident but isn't excessive, the car is fairly comfortable on city streets. However it would be inadequate for serious track use. I would describe that a full lift off the throttle in the middle of a 70mph corner in 3rd gear does require more than a ~10 degrees of steering adjustment, i.e. it is "very noticeable."
On the other hand, my 993 GT2 conversion with PSS10s, GT2 uprights and sways and r comp tires, is incredibly composed when pushed. The dive, roll and squat seems like it has been reduced by an order of magnitude (in other words, the "limits" are much higher) Steering adjustments are still required, but are minute compared to the 964. It feels like an utter race car compared to the 964.
I think you can absolutely get your 964 to handle like a race car, (dialing out all of that movement in the chassis, making it grip better, etc) but then you start losing out on its street-ability. Also, I think much of that movement you describe is very consistent with the character of the car and the era from which it comes.
I enjoy driving my 964 more on the street- at lower speeds it is more communicative and requires more attention and "work" to maintain a certain average. The 993 takes less effort because it has so much more potential, the engine is more responsive and powerful, and to get the chassis near its limits, you have to be traveling substantially faster. You can see a trend here... newer performance cars have such high limits that it's really tough to enjoy them on the street.
