Turbo 3.6 collectibility
05-08-2013, 01:06 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Turbo 3.6 collectibility
Hello,
As many of you know I am an avid 3.6 owner and enthusiast. Back in the 90's the car that I loved are F355, 928 GTS and 911 Turbo 3.6. F355 was at the top because it looked more like a Supermodel in car world but after 20 years the 911 Turbo 3.6 looks better. I guess Porsche's are like wine as they grow older the better they become(I dont drink I am muslim "religious reasons") but that is a metaphor best used for these cars and I hear often.
Back in the mid 2000's these 964's came more and more affordable and hit the 50k range-60k range for a Turbo 3.6 and wasn't in the persecutive of the car industry that it would bounce back to become a collectible.
What do you think is a cause of the Turbo 3.6 being an appreciating investment asset and a future classic collectible ?
1) Rarity (1,407 produced)
2) Bad Boys Movie
3) The 20-25 year age where kids once dreamed of owning start to fulfil their dreams
4) Last Air Cooled 911 Turbo RWD
5) Classic 911 Shape
6) Total of the above + Speedline
How will be the outcome when less Manual gearbox cars are produced to this car ? More Demand ?
What is the future outlook for this car? I am not claiming it will happen but a friend of mine tells me in the future this car will be the next "70's RS" classic status in the 20 years or so.
As many of you know I am an avid 3.6 owner and enthusiast. Back in the 90's the car that I loved are F355, 928 GTS and 911 Turbo 3.6. F355 was at the top because it looked more like a Supermodel in car world but after 20 years the 911 Turbo 3.6 looks better. I guess Porsche's are like wine as they grow older the better they become(I dont drink I am muslim "religious reasons") but that is a metaphor best used for these cars and I hear often.
Back in the mid 2000's these 964's came more and more affordable and hit the 50k range-60k range for a Turbo 3.6 and wasn't in the persecutive of the car industry that it would bounce back to become a collectible.
What do you think is a cause of the Turbo 3.6 being an appreciating investment asset and a future classic collectible ?
1) Rarity (1,407 produced)
2) Bad Boys Movie
3) The 20-25 year age where kids once dreamed of owning start to fulfil their dreams
4) Last Air Cooled 911 Turbo RWD
5) Classic 911 Shape
6) Total of the above + Speedline
How will be the outcome when less Manual gearbox cars are produced to this car ? More Demand ?
What is the future outlook for this car? I am not claiming it will happen but a friend of mine tells me in the future this car will be the next "70's RS" classic status in the 20 years or so.
05-08-2013, 02:43 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
You forgot one 'cause' - last single turbo. To me that is a big part of the kick in the pants that this car is. When that turbo kicks in people experienced with modern Porsches (993TT forward) are quite surprised by the effect. To me this is a big reason why most people who drive the car love it, buy it, and don't ever want to sell it.
05-08-2013, 03:16 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Hi Mean Machine,
I fully agree with you..1-6 are the elements that speak for it. Low production numbers are always the "key to success"
Regarding the future, I think that 3.6 have reached a price now where they would not appreciate much more..my personal guess, a 3.6 tubo will never be an 2.7RS..simply because its no RS. This will be reserved for 993 RS/Gt2RS and 4.0L RS..in fact the latter one is already climbing up. I would also predict that in the future 997 GT3/GT2s will remain stable and might even move up again a bit..
But a successor for the 2.7RS must fascinate..must be raw..all this the GT2RS and 4.0RS have..plus they were more limited in prod. no. (together) then the 2.7RS.
All the best
I fully agree with you..1-6 are the elements that speak for it. Low production numbers are always the "key to success"
Regarding the future, I think that 3.6 have reached a price now where they would not appreciate much more..my personal guess, a 3.6 tubo will never be an 2.7RS..simply because its no RS. This will be reserved for 993 RS/Gt2RS and 4.0L RS..in fact the latter one is already climbing up. I would also predict that in the future 997 GT3/GT2s will remain stable and might even move up again a bit..
But a successor for the 2.7RS must fascinate..must be raw..all this the GT2RS and 4.0RS have..plus they were more limited in prod. no. (together) then the 2.7RS.
All the best
05-08-2013, 05:15 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
You forgot one 'cause' - last single turbo. To me that is a big part of the kick in the pants that this car is. When that turbo kicks in people experienced with modern Porsches (993TT forward) are quite surprised by the effect. To me this is a big reason why most people who drive the car love it, buy it, and don't ever want to sell it.
05-08-2013, 05:16 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Hi Mean Machine,
I fully agree with you..1-6 are the elements that speak for it. Low production numbers are always the "key to success"
Regarding the future, I think that 3.6 have reached a price now where they would not appreciate much more..my personal guess, a 3.6 tubo will never be an 2.7RS..simply because its no RS. This will be reserved for 993 RS/Gt2RS and 4.0L RS..in fact the latter one is already climbing up. I would also predict that in the future 997 GT3/GT2s will remain stable and might even move up again a bit..
But a successor for the 2.7RS must fascinate..must be raw..all this the GT2RS and 4.0RS have..plus they were more limited in prod. no. (together) then the 2.7RS.
All the best
I fully agree with you..1-6 are the elements that speak for it. Low production numbers are always the "key to success"
Regarding the future, I think that 3.6 have reached a price now where they would not appreciate much more..my personal guess, a 3.6 tubo will never be an 2.7RS..simply because its no RS. This will be reserved for 993 RS/Gt2RS and 4.0L RS..in fact the latter one is already climbing up. I would also predict that in the future 997 GT3/GT2s will remain stable and might even move up again a bit..
But a successor for the 2.7RS must fascinate..must be raw..all this the GT2RS and 4.0RS have..plus they were more limited in prod. no. (together) then the 2.7RS.
All the best
05-08-2013, 05:45 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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But for me its clear it will not be in the same league as GT2RS or 4.0L. I would even go that far saying that a GT2RS - 4.0L will be worth more than 2.7 RS in 15 years...there were a lot more 2.7RS than 964 turbo or GT2RS.
The 964 turbo might be half value of the 2.7RS..I gues you would be happy with that too
..lets not get too greedy..thats never good..
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05-08-2013, 05:48 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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05-09-2013, 08:58 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
05-09-2013, 05:53 PM
#11
I'll take a stab at this since I just purchase a 3.6T. After waiting and wanting to purchase a 3.6T at a fair price, what was I thinking? I finally pulled the trigger and purchased one that had 45K more miles than the one I should've bought last year. Cars ended up being the same price. Everytime I look at the one I ended up with instead of the one in the Dupont I should've bought, my heart aches.
Prices keep climbing and I didn't want to miss out. Looking back it looks like the 3.6T prices have taken off significantly in the last year and a half, thanks to a couple of dealers out there having a great chain of clients and selling their cars quite fast.
I feel the 3.6T doesn't quite have the potential to be as collectible as the 2.7 RS only becasue I know of quite a few very nice low mileage examples out there. If these cars are taken off the road because owners feel that the value is getting too high and start bubble wrapping them, the value will only increase nominally. If all 3.6T owners continue to drive thier cars and lower mileage vehicles become less and less the supply obviously becomes less and thus value will rise. One thing also going against the 3.6T increasing significantly more in the near future is a somewhat similar repalcement in the 3.3T. I feel there are many out there that would consider a 3.3T if the delta bacame too significant.
In regards to the GT2RS and 4.0 RS being a collectible...... although there are very few produced I would take a guess that many are bubble wrapped and are waiting for values to rise. With the limited number of them made, depreciation currently has been non existence, however there really hasn't been any price appreciation either. I think a 996 GT3 will be more collectible than both those vehicles because overall production isn't extrmemly high, and most have actually been driven and some very hard. I wouldn't be surprised that 80% of the GT2 RS and 4.0RS have very low mileage to no mileage at all, thus not making mint condition cars not very rare at all.
I agree with the values with Porsche collector that the 3.6T in mint condition eventually can see values as high as half a 2.7 RS.
But the most important thing is to enjoy the cars for their purpose and that is driving them. I feel any price appreciation should be a bonus.
As soon as I replace some age related parts and give it a good buff I am sure I will give my 3.6T the love and attention it deserves.
Cheers!
Prices keep climbing and I didn't want to miss out. Looking back it looks like the 3.6T prices have taken off significantly in the last year and a half, thanks to a couple of dealers out there having a great chain of clients and selling their cars quite fast.
I feel the 3.6T doesn't quite have the potential to be as collectible as the 2.7 RS only becasue I know of quite a few very nice low mileage examples out there. If these cars are taken off the road because owners feel that the value is getting too high and start bubble wrapping them, the value will only increase nominally. If all 3.6T owners continue to drive thier cars and lower mileage vehicles become less and less the supply obviously becomes less and thus value will rise. One thing also going against the 3.6T increasing significantly more in the near future is a somewhat similar repalcement in the 3.3T. I feel there are many out there that would consider a 3.3T if the delta bacame too significant.
In regards to the GT2RS and 4.0 RS being a collectible...... although there are very few produced I would take a guess that many are bubble wrapped and are waiting for values to rise. With the limited number of them made, depreciation currently has been non existence, however there really hasn't been any price appreciation either. I think a 996 GT3 will be more collectible than both those vehicles because overall production isn't extrmemly high, and most have actually been driven and some very hard. I wouldn't be surprised that 80% of the GT2 RS and 4.0RS have very low mileage to no mileage at all, thus not making mint condition cars not very rare at all.
I agree with the values with Porsche collector that the 3.6T in mint condition eventually can see values as high as half a 2.7 RS.
But the most important thing is to enjoy the cars for their purpose and that is driving them. I feel any price appreciation should be a bonus.
As soon as I replace some age related parts and give it a good buff I am sure I will give my 3.6T the love and attention it deserves.
Cheers!
05-10-2013, 01:19 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Great post Kevin
05-10-2013, 09:12 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
yes, great insight Kevin.
and valid points by others above
I believe that the $100k range is a great price point for serious collectors... especially those playing in the much higher dollar game on cars that are upwards of 10x the value. In that sense, how can one go wrong with a clean, no stories, original 3.6? What a great great way for a serious collector to add an air cooled 911 to the stable.
Whether these cars compare to 2.7RS or 4.0RS or 993RS or 993TTS is debatable all day long. But I believe the upside is not debatable and may valid points above to back it up...
Low production #s; universally desirable; less complicated than 993TT; Bad Boys movie; Speed lines; etc...
and valid points by others above
I believe that the $100k range is a great price point for serious collectors... especially those playing in the much higher dollar game on cars that are upwards of 10x the value. In that sense, how can one go wrong with a clean, no stories, original 3.6? What a great great way for a serious collector to add an air cooled 911 to the stable.
Whether these cars compare to 2.7RS or 4.0RS or 993RS or 993TTS is debatable all day long. But I believe the upside is not debatable and may valid points above to back it up...
Low production #s; universally desirable; less complicated than 993TT; Bad Boys movie; Speed lines; etc...
05-12-2013, 04:26 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
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I'll take a stab at this since I just purchase a 3.6T. After waiting and wanting to purchase a 3.6T at a fair price, what was I thinking? I finally pulled the trigger and purchased one that had 45K more miles than the one I should've bought last year. Cars ended up being the same price. Everytime I look at the one I ended up with instead of the one in the Dupont I should've bought, my heart aches.
Prices keep climbing and I didn't want to miss out. Looking back it looks like the 3.6T prices have taken off significantly in the last year and a half, thanks to a couple of dealers out there having a great chain of clients and selling their cars quite fast.
I feel the 3.6T doesn't quite have the potential to be as collectible as the 2.7 RS only becasue I know of quite a few very nice low mileage examples out there. If these cars are taken off the road because owners feel that the value is getting too high and start bubble wrapping them, the value will only increase nominally. If all 3.6T owners continue to drive thier cars and lower mileage vehicles become less and less the supply obviously becomes less and thus value will rise. One thing also going against the 3.6T increasing significantly more in the near future is a somewhat similar repalcement in the 3.3T. I feel there are many out there that would consider a 3.3T if the delta bacame too significant.
In regards to the GT2RS and 4.0 RS being a collectible...... although there are very few produced I would take a guess that many are bubble wrapped and are waiting for values to rise. With the limited number of them made, depreciation currently has been non existence, however there really hasn't been any price appreciation either. I think a 996 GT3 will be more collectible than both those vehicles because overall production isn't extrmemly high, and most have actually been driven and some very hard. I wouldn't be surprised that 80% of the GT2 RS and 4.0RS have very low mileage to no mileage at all, thus not making mint condition cars not very rare at all.
I agree with the values with Porsche collector that the 3.6T in mint condition eventually can see values as high as half a 2.7 RS.
But the most important thing is to enjoy the cars for their purpose and that is driving them. I feel any price appreciation should be a bonus.
As soon as I replace some age related parts and give it a good buff I am sure I will give my 3.6T the love and attention it deserves.
Cheers!
Prices keep climbing and I didn't want to miss out. Looking back it looks like the 3.6T prices have taken off significantly in the last year and a half, thanks to a couple of dealers out there having a great chain of clients and selling their cars quite fast.
I feel the 3.6T doesn't quite have the potential to be as collectible as the 2.7 RS only becasue I know of quite a few very nice low mileage examples out there. If these cars are taken off the road because owners feel that the value is getting too high and start bubble wrapping them, the value will only increase nominally. If all 3.6T owners continue to drive thier cars and lower mileage vehicles become less and less the supply obviously becomes less and thus value will rise. One thing also going against the 3.6T increasing significantly more in the near future is a somewhat similar repalcement in the 3.3T. I feel there are many out there that would consider a 3.3T if the delta bacame too significant.
In regards to the GT2RS and 4.0 RS being a collectible...... although there are very few produced I would take a guess that many are bubble wrapped and are waiting for values to rise. With the limited number of them made, depreciation currently has been non existence, however there really hasn't been any price appreciation either. I think a 996 GT3 will be more collectible than both those vehicles because overall production isn't extrmemly high, and most have actually been driven and some very hard. I wouldn't be surprised that 80% of the GT2 RS and 4.0RS have very low mileage to no mileage at all, thus not making mint condition cars not very rare at all.
I agree with the values with Porsche collector that the 3.6T in mint condition eventually can see values as high as half a 2.7 RS.
But the most important thing is to enjoy the cars for their purpose and that is driving them. I feel any price appreciation should be a bonus.
As soon as I replace some age related parts and give it a good buff I am sure I will give my 3.6T the love and attention it deserves.
Cheers!
thanks..good post...a few remarks:
1. in the near future is a somewhat similar repalcement in the 3.3T. I feel there are many out there that would consider a 3.3T if the delta bacame too significant.
Agreed - but the delta today is already "not normal"..the 930 is still undervalued I would say...but my guess is the 930 will jump more then the 3.6...I think at around 100K we are reaching a new level..
2. In regards to the GT2RS and 4.0 RS being a collectible...... although there are very few produced I would take a guess that many are bubble wrapped and are waiting for values to rise. With the limited number of them made, depreciation currently has been non existence, however there really hasn't been any price appreciation either.
Agreed..but dont forget that again the prod. numbers are very low for these. Yes, many are bubble wrapped and are part of some collections...but I dont see many of the owners selling..even if in one year 10% more cars are on the market..it wouldnt change much.
3. General comment: all depends also how many cars are on the market. Example: 2-3 years are in Europe 356 Carrera and 959 could be had for 30% less than today..one reason was that many cars were available..now almost no 959 can be found...and prices reflect this.
If suddenly 50 3.6 become available in the US...I dont see 100K anymore (the same logic applies to the GT2RS etc..but due to much lower prod. numbers the impact will be smaller)..+ state of the economy..in the worst case some will be forced to sell - while demand would be lower..
PS: I personally believe the 2.7RS is overvalued now..simply because there were too many produced for this actual price level..
05-13-2013, 06:33 AM
#15
PS: I personally believe the 2.7RS is overvalued now..simply because there were too many produced for this actual price level..