All these new cool cars!
01-10-2003, 03:38 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
All these new cool cars!
Anyone been watching all the cool new cars coming out. I think the price of 964's, 993's and 996's are going to see a further drop. The first drop seems to have come from the economy tanking, but I think the 2nd drop is going to come from the competition of the new cars.
Take for example, the new WRX STi, 300hp, 300ft-lb torque, active differential, etc, US$32k. Then, there is the super slick Nissan 350Z, the Lotus Elise, the Mitsubishi Evo 8 and so on and so on.
It's going to be tough to ask US$40k for a 10 year old car that has similar hp and torque to a brand new WRX that is $8k cheaper. The new STi WRX is supposed to drive pretty amazing too.
It's funny because I'm going to spend $4k or so on a lightweight clutch/flywheel on the turbo, but that money could be used for a downpayment on one of these new cars.
Any thoughts?
fc-racer
Take for example, the new WRX STi, 300hp, 300ft-lb torque, active differential, etc, US$32k. Then, there is the super slick Nissan 350Z, the Lotus Elise, the Mitsubishi Evo 8 and so on and so on.
It's going to be tough to ask US$40k for a 10 year old car that has similar hp and torque to a brand new WRX that is $8k cheaper. The new STi WRX is supposed to drive pretty amazing too.
It's funny because I'm going to spend $4k or so on a lightweight clutch/flywheel on the turbo, but that money could be used for a downpayment on one of these new cars.
Any thoughts?
fc-racer
01-10-2003, 10:01 AM
#2
Farzaan
In my experience, the prices of our cars will not be too affected by new car offerings. Ours are more sensitive to what the newer models are doing. Here in the UK, you can now just about pick up a 996 cheaper than a 993 (which I think can only be good for the 964 as well).
Whether the next Scoobie Doobie Doo car is any better than last years seems to be a moot point.
All IMHO.
In my experience, the prices of our cars will not be too affected by new car offerings. Ours are more sensitive to what the newer models are doing. Here in the UK, you can now just about pick up a 996 cheaper than a 993 (which I think can only be good for the 964 as well).
Whether the next Scoobie Doobie Doo car is any better than last years seems to be a moot point.
All IMHO.
01-10-2003, 10:28 AM
#3
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Farz,
I think your right man.
I have noted the steady strong decline on C2T prices since I sold mine (and most any other car of particular interest). Its almost frightening.
The new line of cars being produced today are mostly exciting, and furthermore exceptional financing can easily be obtained (for those who need it) on a new ride over a used one.
I see it this way. Like you said, some new models have as much performance, warranty, zero % interest, zero down, no payments for whatever time, new car smell, all the gadgets & safety features that a 10 year old car wont have & the right to say "I bought it new"... Tough - tough competition for sure.
Lets also remember that the key is that most of the world (thankfully not us) can hardly muster up enough dough to place a down payment on things (well enough pay cash 'eh). It is currently SO easy to buy a car for all of them. As long as its new. IMHO
For me... I think I will keep my 911 AND add a new wonder to the fleet.
These new cars are super. What a great time to be a car guy!
I think your right man.
I have noted the steady strong decline on C2T prices since I sold mine (and most any other car of particular interest). Its almost frightening.
The new line of cars being produced today are mostly exciting, and furthermore exceptional financing can easily be obtained (for those who need it) on a new ride over a used one.
I see it this way. Like you said, some new models have as much performance, warranty, zero % interest, zero down, no payments for whatever time, new car smell, all the gadgets & safety features that a 10 year old car wont have & the right to say "I bought it new"... Tough - tough competition for sure.
Lets also remember that the key is that most of the world (thankfully not us) can hardly muster up enough dough to place a down payment on things (well enough pay cash 'eh). It is currently SO easy to buy a car for all of them. As long as its new. IMHO
For me... I think I will keep my 911 AND add a new wonder to the fleet.
These new cars are super. What a great time to be a car guy!
01-10-2003, 10:48 AM
#4
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Very good topic!
I am trying to figure out why I bought a Porsche 911 turbo and not a Mitsubishi Evo something, not sure what the answer is.
But it wasn't all about performance, the Porsche brand was worth a lot to me, and so was the looks.
I think the "supercar" image that Ferrari and Porsche got is worth a lot and will protect the prices, but you got a point here.
Great topic Farzaan, here is a question for you and other board members, why did you buy a Porsche 911 Turbo ?
I am trying to figure out why I bought a Porsche 911 turbo and not a Mitsubishi Evo something, not sure what the answer is.
But it wasn't all about performance, the Porsche brand was worth a lot to me, and so was the looks.
I think the "supercar" image that Ferrari and Porsche got is worth a lot and will protect the prices, but you got a point here.
Great topic Farzaan, here is a question for you and other board members, why did you buy a Porsche 911 Turbo ?
01-10-2003, 02:09 PM
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I bought my C2T in november for around 37k, 39k miles, host of upgrade that make 380hp. It would be a much harder sell now with the WRX Sti out, I really like the looks and the AWD. I think I will still take the porsche for a handfull of reasons though
A) Looks WAY better then any subaru ever will.
B) Performance is still better
C) Exotic
D) The sound!
E) The community that exist around porsche
If this was going to be my only car it wouldn't even be a contest, but the porsche is a much better "toy" IMHO
A) Looks WAY better then any subaru ever will.
B) Performance is still better
C) Exotic
D) The sound!
E) The community that exist around porsche
If this was going to be my only car it wouldn't even be a contest, but the porsche is a much better "toy" IMHO
01-10-2003, 03:35 PM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Staffan:
<strong>Very good topic!
Great topic Farzaan, here is a question for you and other board members, why did you buy a Porsche 911 Turbo ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">For me, it started a while back. When I was probably in elementary school in Canada, I was watching car racing on TV. The series was called the Rothmans Turbo Cup and featured 944 Turbos raced by the likes of Paul Tracey, Jacques Villeneuve, Richard Spenard, etc. It was an awesome series and from that day on, I wanted a 944 Turbo.
At 20 years old, I got a good job in the high tech world and looked around for a nice 944 Turbo S and found one. I drove that car for 5.5 years and loved it to death. The new owner has now enjoyed a year of trouble free ownership. So, why did I buy the 911 Turbo?
I had a Talon AWD that was pretty hot when I was in my teens. I pulled up next to a 3.6 Turbo at a light once. The roads were completely empty and it was not a city area. We both took off, keep in mind that I had NEVER lost a race with that car because of the AWD. This guy stayed even with me across the intersection and then LEFT me for DEAD. Watching that red whale tail pull away left me in awe. I later saw the guy at a gas station and we chatted for a while (he owned that gas station btw). Then, I was watching the movie Bad Boys and who cannot fall in love with the "shiny ***** with two chairs"
Finally, when I was in University, I cut out a picture of a 911 Turbo LM from Excellence Magazine and put it in the inside cover of my notebook. Whenever I felt like giving up, I turned to that page. I know material things are not everything, my friends and family mean way more to me than any car, but at that time, it helped keep me motivated.
When I brought the C2 Turbo to my parent's place to show them the car, it was ironic that my mother was cleaning out the garage and found my notebook from University. She showed me the car picture and said, "see, I told you, work hard and you'll get it". Mom is always right
I'm really fortunate that I've had the chance to own a 911 Turbo at a young age. A 60 year old doctor that has a RUF Turbo R once told me, "buy the turbo while you're young, I only have another couple of years to enjoy this car, even now, I can't keep up with it and have to drive it under its limits, enjoy life while you're young".
I've taken his advice to heart. I hope to have my own Turbo R by the end of 2004.
I guess, that's why we buy US$40k cars that are 12 years old with MECHANICAL fuel injection when we could be driving the latest and greatest for less money.
fc-racer
<strong>Very good topic!
Great topic Farzaan, here is a question for you and other board members, why did you buy a Porsche 911 Turbo ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">For me, it started a while back. When I was probably in elementary school in Canada, I was watching car racing on TV. The series was called the Rothmans Turbo Cup and featured 944 Turbos raced by the likes of Paul Tracey, Jacques Villeneuve, Richard Spenard, etc. It was an awesome series and from that day on, I wanted a 944 Turbo.
At 20 years old, I got a good job in the high tech world and looked around for a nice 944 Turbo S and found one. I drove that car for 5.5 years and loved it to death. The new owner has now enjoyed a year of trouble free ownership. So, why did I buy the 911 Turbo?
I had a Talon AWD that was pretty hot when I was in my teens. I pulled up next to a 3.6 Turbo at a light once. The roads were completely empty and it was not a city area. We both took off, keep in mind that I had NEVER lost a race with that car because of the AWD. This guy stayed even with me across the intersection and then LEFT me for DEAD. Watching that red whale tail pull away left me in awe. I later saw the guy at a gas station and we chatted for a while (he owned that gas station btw). Then, I was watching the movie Bad Boys and who cannot fall in love with the "shiny ***** with two chairs"
Finally, when I was in University, I cut out a picture of a 911 Turbo LM from Excellence Magazine and put it in the inside cover of my notebook. Whenever I felt like giving up, I turned to that page. I know material things are not everything, my friends and family mean way more to me than any car, but at that time, it helped keep me motivated.
When I brought the C2 Turbo to my parent's place to show them the car, it was ironic that my mother was cleaning out the garage and found my notebook from University. She showed me the car picture and said, "see, I told you, work hard and you'll get it". Mom is always right
I'm really fortunate that I've had the chance to own a 911 Turbo at a young age. A 60 year old doctor that has a RUF Turbo R once told me, "buy the turbo while you're young, I only have another couple of years to enjoy this car, even now, I can't keep up with it and have to drive it under its limits, enjoy life while you're young".
I've taken his advice to heart. I hope to have my own Turbo R by the end of 2004.
I guess, that's why we buy US$40k cars that are 12 years old with MECHANICAL fuel injection when we could be driving the latest and greatest for less money.
fc-racer
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01-10-2003, 11:28 PM
#8
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You wnat to compare a 12 Years old Porsche with a brand new STI?
Do that .......... after that wait for 12 years and tell me what the subaru is worth.
Apples with apples please. I do not know many japanese car that are 12 years old and have the value of a porsche. Do you?
We have the Mitsu Evo, lancia Integrale, ford escort Cosworth etc etc, for many years in Europe. Great cars with big HP all of them had easily 300 HP with just a chip from only 2L engiones. Do you think this changed anything? you not even see these cars on the road.
People who buy Porsches still buy Porsches and they know why;-)
If you are not aware there are much powerfull cars like the TVR Cervera etc etc. Why people still buy Porsche and not such cars with 800 STOCK HP?
I tell you why. When you buy a Porsche you don't pay for the car, you pay for the Myth and the brand. You cant have this from a jap, French or other car. They just do have have the same history as Porsche.
Konstantin
Do that .......... after that wait for 12 years and tell me what the subaru is worth.
Apples with apples please. I do not know many japanese car that are 12 years old and have the value of a porsche. Do you?
We have the Mitsu Evo, lancia Integrale, ford escort Cosworth etc etc, for many years in Europe. Great cars with big HP all of them had easily 300 HP with just a chip from only 2L engiones. Do you think this changed anything? you not even see these cars on the road.
People who buy Porsches still buy Porsches and they know why;-)
If you are not aware there are much powerfull cars like the TVR Cervera etc etc. Why people still buy Porsche and not such cars with 800 STOCK HP?
I tell you why. When you buy a Porsche you don't pay for the car, you pay for the Myth and the brand. You cant have this from a jap, French or other car. They just do have have the same history as Porsche.
Konstantin
01-11-2003, 07:27 AM
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Hi FC-rACER,
In Australia, we have a few modified WRX's and Evo's that can run down the quarter in less than 10 secs [faster than a GT2], but so what!
At the end of the day people buy a Porsche because of its superior quality, and possibly the best engineered car in the world. The fact that one of these Japanese tin cans will out accelerate a Porsche is irrelevant.
I have witnessed [on the TV ] what happens to these pocket rockets in an accident, and I can tell which car I would rather be in, Jap cars are literally made out of soft metal. Most friends of mine who owned WRX's have all since sold them after about 80,000km. They where loose, rattly and noisy mechanicals.
And lets face it, a potential buyer looking at a AU$60k vehicle is hardly in a financial position to buy a 964 turbo which in Australia can fetch up to AU$150,000 is he?
When you drive down the street in a 911 turbo, heads turn, people know a Porsche......no one looks at a Subaru WRX.
Mind you the WRX etc is a fun car to throw around the city streets and drag every other car off the lights, but thats about it!
The Porsche will always be a superior vehicle, and here in Australia at least the introduction of a 300hp WRXsti makes absolutely no difference to the new or second hand price of a Porsche.
We are talking two entirely different markets and buyer expectations here.
Stick with the Porsche.
PeterV
964 3.6 Turbo
In Australia, we have a few modified WRX's and Evo's that can run down the quarter in less than 10 secs [faster than a GT2], but so what!
At the end of the day people buy a Porsche because of its superior quality, and possibly the best engineered car in the world. The fact that one of these Japanese tin cans will out accelerate a Porsche is irrelevant.
I have witnessed [on the TV ] what happens to these pocket rockets in an accident, and I can tell which car I would rather be in, Jap cars are literally made out of soft metal. Most friends of mine who owned WRX's have all since sold them after about 80,000km. They where loose, rattly and noisy mechanicals.
And lets face it, a potential buyer looking at a AU$60k vehicle is hardly in a financial position to buy a 964 turbo which in Australia can fetch up to AU$150,000 is he?
When you drive down the street in a 911 turbo, heads turn, people know a Porsche......no one looks at a Subaru WRX.
Mind you the WRX etc is a fun car to throw around the city streets and drag every other car off the lights, but thats about it!
The Porsche will always be a superior vehicle, and here in Australia at least the introduction of a 300hp WRXsti makes absolutely no difference to the new or second hand price of a Porsche.
We are talking two entirely different markets and buyer expectations here.
Stick with the Porsche.
PeterV
964 3.6 Turbo
01-11-2003, 04:31 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
If the money I spent on my car was back in my pocket, I'd go out and buy another Turbo 3.6, even though the alternatives have become faster, more technically advanced etc.
The following is a list of things, quantitative and qualitative that I believe the Turbo 3.6 STILL does better than the alternatives:
Engine - some people love frenetic engines, I don't, and never have. The turboed flat 6 doesn't have the low down torque of a V8, but it feels very relaxed to rev, and oh god, that torque and noise above 4,000 rpm.
Real world acceleration - It really used to annoy to see Japanese stereos measured with Peak Power Measured Output, when the real measure was Root Mean Square; I know it was all advertising guff, but I've been wary of any Japanese advertising since. Last year, I compared the magazine figures for the alternatives and took some very conservative figures off my car's handbook. I know which car I'd want to be in overtaking a line of traffic doing 100km/hr. That's real world usable power.
Turbo 911 BMW WRX
3.6 Carerra M3 STI
0-60 km/hr 2.48 2.4 2.8 2.6
0-80 km/hr 3.91 3.9 4.2 4.1
0-100 km/hr 5.09 5.3 5.7 6.1
0-120 km/hr 6.43 7.3 7.8 8.3
0-140 km/hr 8.57 9.6 10.2 11.6
0-400m 13.5 13.5 13.9 14.2
80-140 km/hr 4.66 5.70 6.00 7.50
Feel - My wife's new generation CRV is a pleasure to drive, no squeaks, no rattles, solid, but it has no character, and doesn't feel nearly as taut and solid as the Porsche. I think a WRX would probably be less taut than the CRV.
Smell - Went windsurfing yesterday, and just smelling the wetsuit brought back so many memories. Getting into the Porsche and smelling that leather does the same for me, as does the hot oil smell.
Style - I could stare at my car for hours, and I get the same [very positive] response from strangers. I can't say I've ever polished a car as much as I have the Turbo 3.6. I'd do it just to stroke those muscular flanks.
Engineering - what little work I've done on my car so far has been a pleasure; you take a piece off and you put it back on without a hassle, it all fits and seems beautifully engineered.
Personality fit - I'm 40, not 22; just as there are clothes I shouldn't wear anymore, there are also cars that I'd look silly driving at my age [just my opinion].
Note that I haven't mentioned depreciation, as I'm not sure that our car actually do better than others; my car is 9.5 years old and I bought it for 34% of its new value i.e. the previous owners lost a lot of money.
NB: I haven't mentioned the driving experience, as I haven't driven a WRX
The following is a list of things, quantitative and qualitative that I believe the Turbo 3.6 STILL does better than the alternatives:
Engine - some people love frenetic engines, I don't, and never have. The turboed flat 6 doesn't have the low down torque of a V8, but it feels very relaxed to rev, and oh god, that torque and noise above 4,000 rpm.
Real world acceleration - It really used to annoy to see Japanese stereos measured with Peak Power Measured Output, when the real measure was Root Mean Square; I know it was all advertising guff, but I've been wary of any Japanese advertising since. Last year, I compared the magazine figures for the alternatives and took some very conservative figures off my car's handbook. I know which car I'd want to be in overtaking a line of traffic doing 100km/hr. That's real world usable power.
Turbo 911 BMW WRX
3.6 Carerra M3 STI
0-60 km/hr 2.48 2.4 2.8 2.6
0-80 km/hr 3.91 3.9 4.2 4.1
0-100 km/hr 5.09 5.3 5.7 6.1
0-120 km/hr 6.43 7.3 7.8 8.3
0-140 km/hr 8.57 9.6 10.2 11.6
0-400m 13.5 13.5 13.9 14.2
80-140 km/hr 4.66 5.70 6.00 7.50
Feel - My wife's new generation CRV is a pleasure to drive, no squeaks, no rattles, solid, but it has no character, and doesn't feel nearly as taut and solid as the Porsche. I think a WRX would probably be less taut than the CRV.
Smell - Went windsurfing yesterday, and just smelling the wetsuit brought back so many memories. Getting into the Porsche and smelling that leather does the same for me, as does the hot oil smell.
Style - I could stare at my car for hours, and I get the same [very positive] response from strangers. I can't say I've ever polished a car as much as I have the Turbo 3.6. I'd do it just to stroke those muscular flanks.
Engineering - what little work I've done on my car so far has been a pleasure; you take a piece off and you put it back on without a hassle, it all fits and seems beautifully engineered.
Personality fit - I'm 40, not 22; just as there are clothes I shouldn't wear anymore, there are also cars that I'd look silly driving at my age [just my opinion].
Note that I haven't mentioned depreciation, as I'm not sure that our car actually do better than others; my car is 9.5 years old and I bought it for 34% of its new value i.e. the previous owners lost a lot of money.
NB: I haven't mentioned the driving experience, as I haven't driven a WRX
01-12-2003, 05:47 PM
#11
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Porsche...There is no substitute!! I can't believe this topic is being debated here! The 911 has no equal in looks feel or shear automotive appeal. The look of the car, the sound under full acceleration.....
Ever listened to a WRX, it sounds like an angry emasculated squirrel! In 12 years it will be just another aging 4 banger with rusty body panals.The Porsche experience is a life long partnership that becomes addictive and in the words of Forrest Gump " That's all I have to say about that"!!
Maverick
Ever listened to a WRX, it sounds like an angry emasculated squirrel! In 12 years it will be just another aging 4 banger with rusty body panals.The Porsche experience is a life long partnership that becomes addictive and in the words of Forrest Gump " That's all I have to say about that"!!
Maverick
01-12-2003, 07:19 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John McM:
<strong>
Turbo 911 BMW WRX
3.6 Carerra M3 STI
0-60 km/hr 2.48 2.4 2.8 2.6
0-80 km/hr 3.91 3.9 4.2 4.1
0-100 km/hr 5.09 5.3 5.7 6.1
0-120 km/hr 6.43 7.3 7.8 8.3
0-140 km/hr 8.57 9.6 10.2 11.6
0-400m 13.5 13.5 13.9 14.2
80-140 km/hr 4.66 5.70 6.00 7.50
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The WRX STI is definetely quicker than 6.1sec to 100kph...the regular WRX does it in 5.7 or so thanks to AWD, but the STI has an extra 85hp...
The newer pocket rockets are getting pretty fast, that is something you have to admit...
You see what I'm driving, so you know where I stand when it comes down to buying.
<strong>
Turbo 911 BMW WRX
3.6 Carerra M3 STI
0-60 km/hr 2.48 2.4 2.8 2.6
0-80 km/hr 3.91 3.9 4.2 4.1
0-100 km/hr 5.09 5.3 5.7 6.1
0-120 km/hr 6.43 7.3 7.8 8.3
0-140 km/hr 8.57 9.6 10.2 11.6
0-400m 13.5 13.5 13.9 14.2
80-140 km/hr 4.66 5.70 6.00 7.50
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The WRX STI is definetely quicker than 6.1sec to 100kph...the regular WRX does it in 5.7 or so thanks to AWD, but the STI has an extra 85hp...
The newer pocket rockets are getting pretty fast, that is something you have to admit...
You see what I'm driving, so you know where I stand when it comes down to buying.
01-12-2003, 08:23 PM
#13
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Guys Guys
Its like comparing a swiss timepiece to a Casio.
The Casio watch may keep perfect tome to 1/100th sec per year but you dont want to be seen wearing it.
The swiss timepiece will need more love and care but as it is out of production and more and more disappear its collectability value goes up.
I think you could see the same with the 3.6T & the 3.3T to a slightly lesser degree.
Remember these cars cost in the region of £80K when new 10 years ago on average. Whats the price range now £27,000 - £45,000. Any depreciation has in the main happened already, compared to any new car even a new Porsche.
If you did not use it it would probably go up in value.
If you use it limited millage and do not bend it it will probably maintain its value or a small loss. (A new car will 20% of its value the day you get it delivered and 15% each year for the first 5 on average. Normally 50% gone in 4 years. Then things settle and if its mass production it joins the ever decreasing await for scrap value. If its non mass produced things start going by supply & demand.
I think its great if a few more thousand comes off the price of the 964 generally as it is not as rare as a Turbo (The reason porsche is the legend.
Think about it you can then get a 964 soft top for day to day and have the Turbo for the weekend.
The 964 will still only cost you half or 1/3 the price of a new Japanese Casio Car and guess what if you do not total it, you will not lose as much again on a second vehicle.
P.S. reliability
All these Jap new off the line cars will have their years of recalls and stuff like that. We know our cars are well built and all the niggles are sorted.
Our cars do ot smell like the inside of a plastics factory either.
And really its all about style and class.
Its like comparing a swiss timepiece to a Casio.
The Casio watch may keep perfect tome to 1/100th sec per year but you dont want to be seen wearing it.
The swiss timepiece will need more love and care but as it is out of production and more and more disappear its collectability value goes up.
I think you could see the same with the 3.6T & the 3.3T to a slightly lesser degree.
Remember these cars cost in the region of £80K when new 10 years ago on average. Whats the price range now £27,000 - £45,000. Any depreciation has in the main happened already, compared to any new car even a new Porsche.
If you did not use it it would probably go up in value.
If you use it limited millage and do not bend it it will probably maintain its value or a small loss. (A new car will 20% of its value the day you get it delivered and 15% each year for the first 5 on average. Normally 50% gone in 4 years. Then things settle and if its mass production it joins the ever decreasing await for scrap value. If its non mass produced things start going by supply & demand.
I think its great if a few more thousand comes off the price of the 964 generally as it is not as rare as a Turbo (The reason porsche is the legend.
Think about it you can then get a 964 soft top for day to day and have the Turbo for the weekend.
The 964 will still only cost you half or 1/3 the price of a new Japanese Casio Car and guess what if you do not total it, you will not lose as much again on a second vehicle.
P.S. reliability
All these Jap new off the line cars will have their years of recalls and stuff like that. We know our cars are well built and all the niggles are sorted.
Our cars do ot smell like the inside of a plastics factory either.
And really its all about style and class.
01-13-2003, 12:47 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Adrial,
The figures I cited for the STI, M3 and Carerra came from a road test carried out by the Australian Wheels Magazine [February 2002 edition]. I have since thrown out the magazine, so unfortunately I can't tell you how they launched the cars i.e. whether it was without regard to clutch life, or more like what a long-term owner without deep pockets would do.
I don't deny that the new Japanese pocket rockets are getting faster, I just wonder how much of the performance is real world i.e. how accessible it is on the road to an owner that respects their car.
BTW: I don't get your point regarding where you stand. Do you dislike the 951, but bought it because you couldn't afford a WRX? In my part of the world the prices for the two cars aren't that dissimilar so I can't understand your rationale.
The figures I cited for the STI, M3 and Carerra came from a road test carried out by the Australian Wheels Magazine [February 2002 edition]. I have since thrown out the magazine, so unfortunately I can't tell you how they launched the cars i.e. whether it was without regard to clutch life, or more like what a long-term owner without deep pockets would do.
I don't deny that the new Japanese pocket rockets are getting faster, I just wonder how much of the performance is real world i.e. how accessible it is on the road to an owner that respects their car.
BTW: I don't get your point regarding where you stand. Do you dislike the 951, but bought it because you couldn't afford a WRX? In my part of the world the prices for the two cars aren't that dissimilar so I can't understand your rationale.
01-14-2003, 08:19 AM
#15
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
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Who cares if the newer japanese thing has similar hp figures, smells new, has lots of buttons...
Firstly, there is always going to be something that is quicker than that, has more buttons etc etc.
If all you are interested is acceleration & power bang for the buck, get a Caterham or similar.
If you're worried about 'value' get a Mondeo.
If you want a great car, get a Porsche.
Firstly, there is always going to be something that is quicker than that, has more buttons etc etc.
If all you are interested is acceleration & power bang for the buck, get a Caterham or similar.
If you're worried about 'value' get a Mondeo.
If you want a great car, get a Porsche.