schred

With a car of this age, no one can know what may or may not happen after a day or a week of driving. Obviously is was great that RPM stepped up and paid the bill, but I feel it is a risk that both parties must admit. RPM takes a risk in buying and selling the car just as the end user takes a risk with these cars. Ray is in this business to make money and obviously he does, but I think it was expecting maybe a bit much for him to be held responsible for the entire bill on this one. He could not have known this issue when he bought the car or sold the car. Back to the risk we take. I am glad to see that this all worked out.
I do think that it should have been handled between the two parties before it was aired here on this site.

911addict

Well done Ray/RPM.
I had to sue my dealer before he paid up!

TT Surgeon

C4consult, hell yes I remember you!
I may be getting an aircooled toy one of these days myself!
But I agree, we pay a premium to Ray at RPM, and have certain expectations. Ray stepped up to the plate.

IamSMC

Impressive result.

Ray/RPM will definitely have a following with RListers.

mr. rpm

First let me say hi to everyone. I would like to say that I appreciate that I do enjoy a good reputation around the country and around the world and I am very respective of that. I have worked non-stop for over 26 yrs at this business and do not take it lightly. The reason I am posting this is I thought you guys might be interested to hear an “inside version” from the dealer’s perspective on this situation that has been happily resolved for c4consult. I will start from the beginning- I have bought and sold this car 3 times. Before this current transaction, I sold this car to Oregon in 2002. I bought this car about 5 months ago from Joe/RS 197 on this board for $46,000. He posted it as, quote- “Fresh service, Valve adjust, clutch etc... Car runs, looks drives like a new car.” FedEx Passport shipped it to Houston for $2,100. In preparing the car for sale to get the car to my standards, I had the following work done for $2,700 at my wholesale cost with new factory parts-

New front hood struts
New stone guard decals on turbo flares and refinish plastic “dog leg” trim pieces on rocker panels below turbo flares
New driver side door switch rubber “nipple”
New passenger side door interior trim cover
Oil change, brake flush, air filter
Repair some minor oil leaks
Recharge A/C
Refinish exhaust tips
Adjust hood latch, engine cover latch and gas door latch
New mats
Complete polish/wetsand and detail
New hood badge
New fog light
New battery
New battery drain hose
Remount tire that was mounted wrong side out
Refinish wheels
Refinish grey painted area under front bumper/ nose area due to scrapes etc from low driveway etc
Refinish black plastic bumper trim pieces under front bumper/ nose area due to scrapes etc from low driveway etc
Repair stuck power seat
New spare key

I do this type of preparation on every car I buy. Some cars need more and some need less. This type of work is done on cars that are always pretty much described to me as “perfect, showroom, the best, needs nothing, just like you sell, etc” I do buy the best cars out there and of course with no damage history, but they need money, expertise and time spent on them to get them to the top level. So it is a bit irritating when someone happens to know or think they know what I paid for a car and they say or think, “well he paid X and it probably cost about $200 or $300 for a transport or maybe he just drove it back, so he only has XYZ in it”

Anyway, so the car in question is in stock for approx 5 months and c4consult buys it for $54,500 after I discount it $3,000 from my asking price. He chooses to send it to Porsche West Houston for PPI. They have a master “old-school” tech, Hans, who is an absolute expert on air-cooled cars and has been at Porsche over 25 yrs so the perfect guy to check the car. I tell c4consult that to my knowledge, the car needs nothing because if I knew of something we would have already fixed it, but a PPI is fine with me. PPI is done and report comes back 100% perfect, no issues at all. C4consult is told by service manger that the car is the cleanest, most perfect 91 etc they have ever seen. C4consult arrives, is thrilled with the car, pays, signs paperwork including document in large letters that says “AS IS- NO WARRANTY”, car looks so good he does not even test drive it, he is extremely complimentary of me, my company, my inventory, my personal collection and hits the road back to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area approx 250-300 miles from here. Everyone is happy. TEN days later he calls and says he has a problem with the car, that it has “oil mist” on the back of the bumper and some drips on his floor. He tells me he KNOWS that I must NOT have known the car has this problem and he KNOWS the car has NO warranty but what did I think? Well, first I am speechless…how can this car be leaking I think??? It has been sitting in my building that has immaculate sealed floors for 5 months and not a drop, I have used the car some myself and no bumper “oil mist” and on top of that the car just completes PPI at Porsche with 100% perfect results. In the same initial pleasant conversation he says he is taking it to RUF to check it out. I tell him to let me know what they say and we will work it out. A day or two later RUF faxes me an estimate for almost $2,500 for removing the engine and replacing the gaskets for both banks of the timing chain covers. I call the mechanic at Porsche that did the PPI and he again confirms the car was absolutely not leaking and his opinion is it must have developed a leak on his drive home but would be very strange for both sides to develop a leak at the same time. I call c4consult to discuss and again confirm to him that the car was not leaking before he left etc etc. He again agrees that he does not think for a minute that I could have known and he realizes no warranty, but still what am I going to do for him? So I tell him that surely he realizes that the car is 18 years old and at anytime something can fail. I also tell him that the guys at RUF are great and his buddies, but does he realize that the engine does not have to be removed for this repair? So I tell him that although the car absolutely has no warranty, I would send him $500 as a goodwill gesture or if he chooses he can return the car and I will have it repaired at my wholesale cost (approx $1200-$1300) and I will pay $500 of it. He says that he is going to discuss with RUF about the repair without removing the engine and he will get back to me. So far two conversations, both 100% pleasant. Next thing I know, big drama on Rennlist. After the Rennlist drama has commenced c4consult calls me back and says immediately, “I want you to pay 100% of the repair. I spoke to the previous owner and he says you paid him $35,000 for the car and he told you it had an oil leak”. I try to tell him SEVERAL times that I paid $46,000 and yes it had some minor oil leaks which I REPAIRED. Then he says, “well I am hard of hearing and 65 years old, maybe he did say $46,000” He also tells me RUF will now discount the job and do it for $2,000. So I quickly decide I am in a no win situation and I tell him to relax I will send him a check, which I have already mailed. My only remaining real questions are why post about this when in our first conversation I told him I would work with him on it and in our second conversation we end by him saying he is going to speak to RUF again and get back to me and he finally says before hanging up, “thanks Ray for talking with me about this”? Besides posting on the 964 turbo board, he puts on the 993 turbo board - “Please see 964 tubo form Grief” . I don’t think anyone on this board would be too happy about selling a car that they owned for 5 months that was not leaking a DROP of oil and just completed a perfect PPI at their buyer’s mechanic of choice and then being pretty much forced into a $2,000 refund because the car has an issue 10 days later. C4consult is a nice man and I am glad he is now happy with me and his car, I am just not sure this was handled correctly. Thanks Ray Joseph RPM Sports Cars PS- if you didn’t do the math above, the car made $1,700 when all was done after 5 months and a lot of work!

SA Mike

As I have said before I would buy another car from Ray. The sales process went smoothly and when the car arrived it exceeded my expectations. The only regret I had with the car is when I sold it.....damm!!

One of Twenty

Thanks Ray. Your reputation is spotless here and always has been. Your version of the story adds the clarity that has been lacking.

Cheers,

lumpy

Ray,

Thanks for posting your side of the story. I'm glad it all worked out and you certainly solidified your great reputation. I too purchased a 993TT a few years ago from you and I still enjoy the car today as much as I did when it was first delivered to me. I had a few small isses after a few months of ownership (age related) but for a car that was nearly 10 years old when I purchased it...I still give it an 'A'.

melman911

+1

Frank 993 C4S

First off, glad this has worked out well for the purchaser. The only problem I see is that the purchaser was looking for guidance on a public forum before settling the details with the seller directly. Good to hear both sides of the story. These are great cars - now enjoy!

Ray, I'd buy a car from you any day (if my wife would let me). You have a solid reputation. Look at this particilar case as a further investment in it.

kimo964

+1

JDHertz11

As many good things come from this board there must be 2 or 3 stories like this. I purchased my 993TT from a member here about a year ago. Another member passed on the car because he was convinced that seller was not easy to deal with and passed on the car. But...... Before he passed on the car he started a thread that bashed the seller. The end result was that he passed on the car and I bought it. The point is that he didn't have to post his laundry here. The same goes for this one, it never should have been presented to the "Peanut Gallery". You know what they say opinions are like........

DJF1

first of all good on you Ray for your response and nice to see you online. Its been years since I drooled in person at your awesome examples!

I quoted the above part of your reply, to add my 2 cents on the old "Advantage Porsche" down on I-10 and the master tech Hans. Funny when I start reading about the PPI going South at the Porsche dealer immediately I thought of Porsche West. Coincidence? I dont know.
Back in 2001 when I was in between purchasing that gorgeous red 965 you had at your shop, or the guards red 993 cabrio that Advantage had, I was introduced to Hans, the German Master tech. Nice guy I thought, what luck that we had such an experienced tech in our neck of the woods.
On a whim I ended up purchasing the 993 cabrio from them, I was reluctant to buy it without a PPI, but I was assured that Hans has serviced the car and for me he would again look it over just for my piece of mind.
My car goes up on the lift, Hans invited me in to look. He showed me under the car, I must say I was impressed by his attitude and friendliness. Off I go to sign the financing papers and Hans continued to check my new car, he also took it out for a test drive.
He comes back, clean bill of health, same comments from the service manager, its a really clean low miles 993...
So I get the keys of happiness, put the top down and drove home in ecstasy. The next morning I had signed up for the DE at TWS and it would be my first time in a 911 in the yellow group! I had done tons of DE's in my trusty 968 but this was a different beast. I wake up in the morning, get my gear in the car and walk around it. The front right tire seemed low in pressure, I did not think much, I would check everything at the track. At the track, I realize that there is a nail in the tire. Call the dealer tell them about it, at this point I could not put the blame on them, but I asked if they had in stock an S02 front. They did not. Luckily discount tire close to the track did.
Back at the track I asked to go down to blue group and a 911 instructor so I can learn the new car. Out on the track all new signals, a few laps later I get more comfortable and I start pushing a bit. Fast upshift from 2nd to 3rd at the carousel on the revlimiter produced clutch slipping! Next lap the same thing. In the meantime it was pretty obvious that the socks on the car had seen better days... By the end of the day, it was pretty obvious my "perfect" car was not so perfect. The clutch was slipping at full power, my clutch pedal was hanging, the shocks are shot.
Monday morning I called the dealer, pretty much they summed it that it was my fault, that I abused the car on the track and since it was a used car and no warranty was to apply, it was not their fault. They would welcome the repair but I would have to pay for everything... crooks....

Took the car to Mike Callas, eventually we put a new clutch, it needed a new clutch slave cylinder ( the hanging clutch), I was also shown some other bits that the original "PPI" missed...

So that was my story, my experience with their master technician is just that, cant say I'm surprised that the results of the PPI on this 965 are the same as mine, who knows if that is the fault of the technician himself or the direction from the dealer. Maybe a strange coincidence indeed.

torresmd

That is awesome! Glad you are getting it taken care of and huge props to RPM!!

toddturbos

Just to weigh in on everyone’s comments; I have purchased two Porsches for Ray (Black/Black 1996 C4S 8,000 miles and my current Silver/Black 1997 Turbo S, 8,400 miles), both of which were purchased "sight unseen" and no PPI. I have been 100% satisfied with both transactions and would not hesitate in purchasing another sight unseen Porsche.

I have had many follow up conversations with Ray about various Porsche questions, and he always takes to the time to thoroughly answer my questions and make recommendations.

It's my opinion, that Ray is the extreme opposite of a "used car's salesmen" and gives hope to salesmen, that in today's world, one can still trust the word of a man and that of one that stands behind his product.

Todd