Ag02M5

I need to clean it down and really trace the oil leaks but it is getting worse and worse. Looks like around the heads and possibly the case.

I have Wayne's engine rebuilding book, factory manual, etc. and think it is doable. Is that crazy talk for someone who doesn't work on cars for a living?

So who has gone the furthest into their engine who is not a professional mechanic?

Cheers.

RT

Caution, pics may not be work safe.

Ag02M5

Or be sensible and ship it to someone like IA, and come back fresh with EFI.

Metal Guru

I've rebuilt a few VW boxer motors. All motors share the same basic principals; rebuilding a Porsche motor is a different shade of gray.

There are good vendors out there besides IA. Ask the guys over on pelicanparts about it.

What has lead you to the conclusion that you need a rebuild? What is the mileage on the motor? Do you have high oil consumption? Do you just want to rebuild it?

If your motor is under 70k miles I would recommend fixing the oil leaks (looks like your breather and t'stat are leaking; check the power steering pump drive on the right hand camshaft too) and driving it for another season.

If you are convinced that you need a rebuild you could do it yourself, carefully document all parts that you remove, write down fastener sizes, put stuff in baggies, take pictures, ect. Buy or borrow the right tools and take your time doing the re-assembly. Ask questions if you get stumped (pelicanparts engine rebuilding forum is a good place for info).

You can save a $5000 doing it yourself (a rebuild to stock is around $10k) or put that savings into performance enhancements.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Boeing 717

RT I think its totally do-able and would have no problem attempting it myself. You would save so much money and it would be really enjoyable, not to mention the amount of care and attention to detail you would put forth. Go for it man. Just take your time.

Ag02M5

Thanks for the responses.

I am not 100% that it requires a rebuild. The engine is low mile but has sat for LONG periods and was generally not maintained as it should be. I don't have the Zeitronix in yet but it has been running very well since the new fuel filter, accumulator and rebuilt WUR. Not sure abut oil consumption.

The last leakdown was done in 2002 (which was about 1000 miles ago!!!) showed 2%,2%,4%,2%,3%,2% which are pretty damn nice numbers.

Not sure if you can have leakdown like that if you are losing oil around the heads. It doesn't seem to make any of the typical noises associated with broken head studs. There are a bunch more leaks from the oil lines going to the turbo, timing chain cover, etc. Hard to tell whether the case is leaking or not until I clean it up. I am also getting some leaks around the valve covers.

I am guessing at a miniumum, I will need to pull the engine out. This will certainly aid in the header removal/install.

I also figure to do EFI someday but seems kind of a double whammy if a rebuild is needed. Then again, it seems like a major pain to put it all back together then rip off the CIS parts in a year or 2.

I think I am pretty handy and like to work on the car...learning as I go. It does get frustrating not having it on the road though. I obviously can't do the machining but disassembly and reassembly seems reasonable. I will be using your posts (Jerry) for engine removal.

David (aka 125shifter) did a very nice build himself with EFI and lives down the road. Maybe I can get some first hand pointers from him.

Cheers.

RT

Too bad none of you guys that work on your cars are closer.

If I did a rebuild, it would certainly include some upgrades. Cams, head work, ARP/Raceware, balancing, and any of the other key while you are in there to hit 500 hp. Haven't researched enough to know what all else that involves: new rods, valves, springs, etc. I saw the machining that Kevin did on some heads...awesome.

Metal Guru

I think that the oil your seeing is from the top of the engine toward the front of the car. That's where the oil t'stat and breather gaskets up top are. You would have to remove the i/c and intake to reach those components so it might be a good way to get your chops for a rebuild down the road.

Colorado964turbo

I agree, I don't think you need a rebuild yet. You can always use a good cleaner and clean the oil off, then at your next oil change add some dye to the oil, and dirve it, then look for where the oil is coming from. This will give you an idea on how much work is needed.

On a side note, I thought my turbo was leaking, and i had numerous other leaks. Turns out it was just the oil blowing off the leaky valve covers that was causing the problems. I have the valve cover situation taken care of now, so I am going to keep my eye on the car and see if there is anything else leaking.

Bill

X-1

I decided to trace down all my leaks too....

While-yer-in-thar-itis bites hard. Right now my rebuild is:
JE 8:1 pistons
3.6T/964 cams
38mm ported heads (pics just posted on 965 pics thread)
ARP headstuds and rod bolts

This is just to get it back together. Then the EFI conversion starts:
Carrera manifold
GT3582R
... (?) ...

Ag02M5

Cool. I am heading down that slope full speed.

Any kind of DIY or info you can track will help me alot. I really want to do this myself.

Did you feel new pistons were necessary? Who did your headwork?

What EFI?

All the best.

Ryan

X-1

Ryan, if you're compelled to do it yourself then you have my respect! Start with Wayne's book.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...bkptec_pg3.htm
EDIT: you have Wayne's book, sorry.

There were lots of "not necessary" stuff I have done, and no I can't really afford it either. But is a 965 necessary when a Mustang with a Vortech is just as fast? Since I'm going EFI I wanted to up the compression ratio. I debated long and hard with my machinist, and in the end we decided the JEs would be the right solution. The other way to bump CR is to flycut the heads a smidgen, then offset-bore the wristpin bushing another smidgen. You'd then have to cut the pistons to clear the squishband and valves. The JEs were drop-in, are lighter, and are worst-case reversible.
The 964 cams are a consensus favorite. ARP hardware is an absolute necessity.
I have not decided which ECU yet.

By all means hit me with questions; I've researched this stuff to death and had to make a lot of cost decisions and judgment calls. (jon at x 1 networks dot com).

X-1

Headwork: I did the porting myself. I had the valves and seats recut, and the guides replaced by German Precision in Sunnyvale CA:
http://www.germanprecisioninc.com/
Ted is a super, super-nice guy to work with. I am going back down on Saturday to touch up some stuff on my valve seats. My exhaust valve guides were pretty shot after 90k. The result was abnormal wear on the seats and valves.

Ag02M5

I figure I can probably take it apart. May not be able to get it back together.

Just picked up new raceware head studs, washers, nuts and rod bolts for a nice price just in case.

RT

X-1

Taking apart is easy, but DURDY!!! Once you've spent many, many hours cleaning all that crap it's so rewarding to come in from the garage wearing normal street clothes that are NOT ruined, with hands that will wash off with hand soap.
Wayne's book is idiot-proof. Assembly is far more fun than tear-down.

Ag02M5

Oh and I have both of Wayne's books. I have never rebuilt an engine so this one's pretty $$ to cut my teeth on.

X-1

This is my first car engine. I've done sport bike (GSX-R) motors, dirt bike motors... I built the hell out of a KTM 4-stroke a few yrs back. I raced GP bikes for years and that made me pretty comfortable with pistons/rings. But this is my first car engine.
Everybody says to take a $$$ budget and double it. I'm adding to that, take a time budget and double it. I AM JONESING to drive my car again. Lately my wife's A3 feels quick and fun. My one solice is a very generous friend with a Lotus Exige... though that car's tactile agility is enough to have me thinking disloyal thoughts...