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After a frustrating delay, a little progress.
Putting together the front suspension, we were flummoxed when the updated hubs simply didn't work with the 964 ABS ring.
Turns out that like there are half a dozen different versions of the front hub, all with 964 part numbers, and the latest/most reinforced ones are actually 993 parts that use a different ABS ring. Great.
But -- and thanks to Anthony for helping out with this one -- there is a solution: make stub axles out of 964 C4 front axles and use those instead of the Bolt + ABS ring solution used on the 964 C2 / Turbo. Cut down C4 "stub axle" on left, stock bolt and separate ABS ring on right.
Slots perfectly into the 993 (964 341 605 part number) reinforced hubs -- note how much thicker the metal is behind the studs!
You can just see here how the splines on the stub axle interface with the splines inside the 993 hub.
This means that we can torque down the wheel bolts by using the brakes to hold the hubs still (rather than a big socket on the head of the bolt).
So, now back to the ongoing annoyance that is the hot air ducts that carry the heat from the engine bay to the footwells.
I tore one trying to reinstall it and sadly I am coming up blank on ways to repair it.
I may have to order new ones at $620 each.
^^ Glad I could help. You guys caught me while in Boston at a wedding during the Pride parade. I love to people watch but always happy to help if I can. It took some time to figure that one out but having spare parts I can dissect is always helpful. I agree using the 993 hubs is the way to go. Not sure if you noticed but the raised lettering showing the part number is either incorrect on the casting or the PET. The 605 should be 650 I believe or visa versa.
The orange ducting can be purchased from places like Summit racing. I buy an 8 foot length and cut it to size. I cut back the inner wire far enough to fold over the silicone material and crazy glue it so it has a factory appearance. It takes time but saves a small fortune.
@spartansix
nice work! Yikes that’s a lot for an air duct. There is an aerospace company that I’ve seen mentioned on here where guys bought the orange air ducts from. If you haven’t seen that I can dig it up since I saved the link in case I need it one day.
I have SCEET duct to replace all of the short ducts in the car, but the ones in question are the super long ones that probably should never be removed from inside the rockers/frame rails.
I did some experimenting and 2.5” SCEET fits inside the insulated section of the long duct, but the metal fitting on the end that mates to the flapper boxes needs 2.75” tube.
The guy who makes custom ducts was going to help but then he fell off the radar … I haven’t been able to get in touch with him for weeks.
I have PTSD when I see pictures of those ducts. I purchased the last one from Porsche a few years ago and then frankensteined another one together out of 2 older ones.
You might have already tried this but since Singer is coming to the end of their run on their classic singer you might be able to get a few from them. I don't know if they have new ones or if they recondition older ones. They wouldnt part with any when I needed them.
I have PTSD when I see pictures of those ducts. I purchased the last one from Porsche a few years ago and then frankensteined another one together out of 2 older ones.
You might have already tried this but since Singer is coming to the end of their run on their classic singer you might be able to get a few from them. I don't know if they have new ones or if they recondition older ones. They wouldnt part with any when I needed them.
Just a thought.
Good luck,
Ian
The last ones from Porsche?
They show as available... I wonder what you get nowadays.
How did you get them back in the car without tearing them?
The last ones from Porsche?
They show as available... I wonder what you get nowadays.
How did you get them back in the car without tearing them?
I am not sure where you see them as available. Some online resources showed them as available but when we tried to order them they said "ooops, sorry". Maybe they have made more - if so I would buy them. We went to the local dealership and had them do a search.
As for the details of the installation I would love to tell you but I had my shop do it as it was part of a larger issue caused by a rodent infestation in these tubes and in part of the HVAC suitcase. Whole system came out, parts replaced, ultrasonically cleaned and disinfected. More than you want to hear about.
You could call my shop and talk to the guy who owns it. He will never forget that and I am a very good customer. If you want to call him the shop is S Car Go Racing 415.485.6026 and ask to speak to Rob King. You can tell him that it was Ian's Silver 964 Turbo. He was intimately involved with that repair
They did say that installation was a PITA. If I remember correctly it was due to the clips that hold the tube up (in the middle of the rocker) as well as the bracket that the rear of the tub attaches to. Honestly I searched the internet for weeks and found absolutely zero info about removing and replacing them which was part of the reason I didn't attempt to tackle the problem myself.
After weeks of trying to contact the custom ducts guy, I decided to do it myself. How hard could it be?
I started by ordering a full length (11') of 2.5" SCEET duct from Aircraft Spruce.
The flexible section of the Porsche duct is 2.75", but this needed to slot inside the other tube, so I went a hair smaller.
However, this plan meant that the duct didn't fit around the metal coupler at the end which connects to the flapper box!
My solution was to attach a lip of 1/25" thick silicone sheet to the end of the tube which has a little more stretch and would fit around the coupler.
It's glued on with Red RTV and let me tell you, RTV is amazing for gluing silicone to silicone. With an inch of overlap all around, there was no way I could pull it off!
Here you can see the metal end installed in the new silicone tube. It's glued in with RTV for an airtight seal and then reinforced with a couple of rivets, just like the original.
Can I just say how shockingly easy this was compared to trying to force that ancient tube through? It was an order of magnitude less annoying.
One tip I have (sadly not pictured) is to use one of the features of SCEET tubing when making your assembly. SCEET is designed to screw into itself and create a strong airtight seal.
So rather than just measuring a long length of SCEET and then gluing that into the end of the thick paper tube, glue a 6 inch length of SCEET into the end of the thick paper tube and then screw your long duct into that.
This gives you two advantages:
You can adjust the length of the SCEET tube as needed. As you can see from the picture above, our first attempt was about a foot too long.
Better too long than too short, and it was easy to pull it out, unscrew the tube, cut off a foot, screw it back in, and reinstall.
You can tweak the "clocking" of the end piece by unscrewing or screwing the tube in or out.
How the tube is clocked makes a difference for both install and whether or not the metal coupler will mate properly, so this proved quite useful.
With the tube cut to length and installed, it was easy enough to get the couplers screwed in.
The best part of this, however, was that waiting to get those stupid tubes in had held up a ton of (visual) progress.
The front subrame could now go on the car, the power steering could be attached, and it really feels like it is coming together.
Also, working with the rotisserie is so nice! Access to the underside of the car is amazing, and all of these jobs you'd have to do on your back are 10x easier to do sitting on a stool or standing up.
I know that orange duct is rated at a high temp, But it will have constant heat with the shut off in the suitcase itself. I went with a 993 suit case that has a better design with large drain tubes and heat shut off valves behind the toe kick panels.
I actually used my old rusted 964 climate control that came in the car after it sat outside for 23 years. The 964 duct with the foil design breaks apart when trying to connect it to the 964 design. Everyone is happy with that 993 design.
Just a thought, not telling you to switch over.
Yes, I thought about switching to the 993 setup as well, but I couldn't find a reasonably priced set of 993 components.
SCEET is rated to 500F constant and 600 intermittent, and I've been running SCEET closer to the engine (to connect the heat exchangers to the flapper boxes) for years.
The 993 system is better, but I think it will be fine this way, and I'm ~$150 in parts for a higher quality tube than the OEM one.