Igooz

Hello Mr. Fritz, thanks again!

"Was the distributor pulled?" I removed everything below the body, disassembled, rebuilt, etc. over a 2.5 year period. All in my own place, so I did not send parts around and lose anything or lose labels/markings. The main issue is that it has taken 2.5 years and memory fades! Since you mentioned valves, I removed, replaced guides, measured all stems and had a professional replace some. By the book.





Reminder (where I was)"

• I have 12.8V on new HD AGM battery (& leave it on charger)
• Alarm is NOT set.
• I have spark at multiple cylinders.
• All electrical connectors pass visual and physical test.
• All fuses OK
• Cranks beautiful and healthy.
• 3.5 bar of engine oil pressure at cranking
• "mechanical" sounds are beautiful German.
• Car "attempts" to start and I can smell "exhaust" so it is trying, but no start.
• Sometimes backfires

Here the update based on @Fritz Fritz, I agree with you that timing must be off...so this is what is new:

1. Turn engine and line-up crank pulley "Z1 & notch" to notch on case.
2. Remove distributor.
3. Turn engine 360 and line-up crank pulley "Z1 & notch" to notch on case.
4. Reinstall distributor and rotor is now 180 off (than before)
5. Check distributor - "cylinder 1" wire lines up with notch on distributor housing.
6. Attempt re-start, all dead, but lots of backfires. It does not even try and start anymore and no longer smell exhaust...

So, I think that I had the timing correct before, even though it backfired "sometimes" but at least it tried to start...

I am 100% sure that I have the valves set correct...

...anyhow...I used to be able to put my own pants on by myself, but a very good friend who is Porsche tech. is helping now and we will get this beast sorted out!... more to come!

fritz k.

Ok, there has been a complete revision, I did not realize that.
Still there must be a reason why the engine has already fired in the inlet with the former distributor position . I would check the ignition sequence again by considering the cable routing.

Also i would remove the lower left valve cover so you can see the position of the cams in the TDC. This way you can check the distributor position and valve timing. but the porsche technician knows that, hopfully.

​​​​​​Good luck, Fritz

Scott Dunavant

I was going to photograph the wire route for you today. But discovered my own problems.

I'm going back to building houses with inflation.

Igooz

Thanks Scott. My wires are OK.
Distributor cap is marked, distributor housing has a notch for cylinder 1, and so you run the wires accordingly. I thinks that I am ok, there.

Igooz

Should the tachometer (on the dash) bounce up or move during cranking? I noticed that the tachometer does NOT move at all during cranking. It just stays at ZERO RPM. ...Someone please verify?

(And no...I have not gotten this beast started yet, but I did discover a very rudimentary error made by me due to mental fatigue AND lack of practice).

Scott Dunavant

I just check my Instagram video of me starting the car. Tach stays put until she's fired up.


Are you thinking EZ69 is bad?

Igooz

Thanks Scott. So Tach. does not move around during "cranking" and only comes to life with the engine? (That is vaguely what I recall...)

I am still looking for the smoking gun, but since my tach. does not move around during cranking I thought that maybe that is a helpful lead?

Scott Dunavant

1. You do know you have to prime the fuel system with your hand on the fuel meter while you are cranking at first or just jump the fuel pumps at the relay then prime the fuel head with your hand on the fuel meter. Not much at all. But that fuel needs to flow from the WUR to all the fuel ports on the fuel head. You can also push a allen wrench down on the adjuster screw without taking the airbox off. But i recommend taking the airbox off and reinstalling the intercooler.

2. I'd still like to see a drawing of the way you ran your wires.
3. Also screw driver test of top dead center on cyl 1 and cyl 4

Igooz

10-4 and thank you! First your tach does not move during cranking, correct? Only moves with engine started? (I clicked on your instagram account, and I saw something but it was too fast and I do not have an IG account.)

To bounce ideas back to you:

1) "You do know you have to prime the fuel system with your hand..." No!! I did NOT know this nor did this! I primed the pumps, by jumping R61 for a several min. AND, I have cranked the engine now at least 30 times with R61 jumped and otherwise... Both pumps are running...All that cranking with both fuel pumps going would not have been enough to get the fuel to flow to all the ports? So your advice is to remove intercooler, remove aircleaner, reinstall intercooler and reach in the fuel head?

2) "I'd still like to see a drawing of the way you ran your wires..." Help me with your terminology; Which wires? Spark Plug wires, engine harness? I think that this part is pretty straightforward. The spark plug wires are numbered, distributor cap is numbered and cylinder 1-6 are obvious. The harness is also straightforward as I removed everything and put everything back, plus, all plugs are idiot-proof. But hich wires are you thinking about? yes, I can make a diagram, but tell me more!

3) "Also screw driver test of top dead center on cyl 1 and cyl 4" - Yes, I did this as I also changed the ignition distributor rotor position 180 while at TDC 1, etc. verified 1 to 1 and not 1 to 4, etc.

Scott Dunavant

OK, So prime the fuel head and.... I found this in my 1991 Electrical diagram, I'll check it with my diagram at the shop.

Igooz

Sometimes, I wish I had 3 hands! . OK I have removed the intercooler AND air filter housing again!

When you say "prime the fuel system with your hand on the fuel meter"...fuel meter as in Air flow sensor? With R61 jumpered you held down the Air flow sensor ("the plate")?

Scott Dunavant

call me. I'll message you my number

fritz k.

Actually, it's not that difficult. To start it needs air, fuel and ignition spark. The former can be assumed, unless someone has forgotten a rag somewhere in the suction area.

1. spark: disconnect the spark plug cap, insert an old spark plug and put it to ground. When the starter motor turns, a strong spark must be visible.

2. fuel: Loosen the screw connection of the line on one of the accessible injectors (hold against it !) 2 -3 turns and put a rag around it. fuel must come out when you deflect the air mass plate or when you crank.

If 1. + 2. is o.k. it gets slightly more difficult. The camshft timing must be in order and the ignition spark must come at the right time (ignition sequence), you can proof this by checking the ignition timing with a stroboscope.

If fuel is present at the injection valve, it must also open, which requires approx. 2.8 bar fuel pressure. This can be checked on the removed injector or on the WUR.

I think that if you don't get confused and work through the basics calmly and systematically, you will find the cause of no start relatively quickly.

Fritz

heliolps2

What Scott is asking you to do will work if you not getting fuel to the engine. You may need to rebuild your WUR if that is the case.

Igooz

I ended up lowering the engine and going back through the fuel system with access, as well as all the electrical stuff. I won't bore you with details. Let's just say that I can drop the engine in 1-hour and install about the same, I had the intercooler off/on 30 times and I can do it in about 2min! I learned a lot and maybe able to provide help to others in the future.

965 is running really well! I still need to install all the underbelly/plastics/shark fins/ and test drive it, but starts, idles, fans work, thermostat works, AC works, etc. I can get it dialed in now.

Many thanks to @fritz k. ,@Scott Dunavant , @bweSteve , @heliolps2 , @Metal Guru and the other well wishers. Invaluable help.

I had 2 big air-cooled Porsche projects over the past 3 years, both are now 99.5% done. My '72 is a 100% restored and I would put it up against any best '72 on the planet.

The '94 was just total engine/transmission/chassis/brake/wheel disassembly and restoration. All good and done!