DrJupeman

I have a gentleman who is offering me his 964 RSR suspension. He proclaims the part #'s to be:

MSP-57174-L and MSP-57174-R - Bilstein Motorsport front struts (type RSR) (valving 237/96)

MSP-05760 Bilstein Motorsport rear shocks (type RSR)(valving 290/190)

999 343 003 K1 Spring Hardware kit front

999 333 005 K1 Spring Hardware kit rear

964 343 007 K1 Camber plate kit Monoball front

964 333 010 K1 Monoball kit rear

Will this stuff work on my Turbo 3.6? What do folks think is a reasonable price for it assuming it is 1 year old (was purchased from Porsche Motorsports allegedly).

Fwiw, I'm looking for a 80% track, 20% street setup.

cobalt

Talk to Viperbob, I believe he had that setup on his 3.6. He highly recommended it. I am not sure but I think it is almost impossible to get your hands on this stuff new anymore. If so I think you are talking Big $.

Dr. so much for keeping the car stock.

DrJupeman

Who said anything about keeping it stock?

I will probably keep the engine "relatively stock" for quite some time (no big boost spring, etc. for a while), but I can't track with the street suspension for long.

cobalt

No cams or internal mods while you have it apart?

DrJupeman

I've thought a lot about it, Anthony. Besides the incremental cost, I'm leaning towards keeping it stock. I'm still open to suggestions (e.g., I'm still not sold on which cams to use). Many folks say to machine for twin plug now but I feel there is no going back after that and it certainly kills the "purity" of the motor. Some want me to port and extrude hone. The list is endless. I'm currently thinking just put it together stock, run it for a few years, and then do some upgrades later. That may not be the wisest financial move, but it will give me time to learn the car with stock power, and I also feel the journey is half the fun. If I jump into everything up front, I won't enjoy the "extra" from the upgrades as much later.

KeithC2Turto

80% track. Excellent!

Go for effecency, not biger boost!

Porsche put such small intake ports & tame cams in the 930 motors to detune them so they would be reasionable safe to drive on the street. (can you say 935)

All the factory special 94S and 92 light weight had C2 normal cams & opened up intake ports & manifold. C2 cams are a great choice for a track 3.6. Play w the timming for big fun from 5000 - 6800rpm.

The stock K27-7200 is really on the small side for the 3.6 to begin with and will be running out of it's effecency range most the time. Yes it can push 400+hp but will not be running effecently.

Send the turbo to Stephen and Imagin for the bigger compressor wheel.

No, better yet, sell your turbo and have him build one using a K27-7006 turbine/ hot side.

It creats less back presure and adds power where you will need it and creats less heat at the turbo and on the exaust valves.

With these mods you can still run stock boost and pick up good power.

If possable use factory cams as weld ups or not as good. Use sport springs to and replace your rockers to do it right.

As an option, I would spring for a high quality porting job instead of just opening it up (effecency). For a 3.6, go for about 38mm on the intake ports or what your builder sugests. Big is good for you on the track. It won't really effect your 20% street use on a 3.6.

I asunm you are removing the cat w a bipass pipe. The stock muffler is great and you don't need headers. On the street they are nice for a bit quicker response. Stock might even keep the cylinder heat more ballanced on the track. Custom equal lenght is the safest and Koklen makes a set but no heat.

Don't twin plug! You don't need to so with our open chamber design. It would require a full change to the ignition system to do so. It wont give you any extra power on the track but might help some on pre boost driving. (Porsche did not twin plug there modern race cars.)

If you need more fuel you could trick the C2's accel fuel function for about $100 in switches, but that's out there for most. I have been suspect that Porsche did this on there C2 IMSA motors.

If staying at .8 bar which is a good choice as the 3.6 has a bit higher compression than the 3.3's (.9 max) I would just turn the Co up to around 4% and keep the O2 pluged in to keep idle & curse mix ok. Check on a dyno.

Alwas run a mix of race fuel on the track w CIS.

What a runner it would be.

My $.02.

Keith

PS a set of C2 normal 2-5 gears will make it kill as you will stay in a much higer average HP range.

DrJupeman

Changing gears.... Some day, Keith. I am a big fan of changing gears for a track car. I don't see that happening anytime real soon, though, due to budget constraints.

I will add your suggestions to my list of suggested mods. I must say, one fun thing about these cars is all the "options"...

What am I changing the rockers to... ?

KeithC2Turto

Stay stock. Not changing them is like reusing old bearings w a new rod. Could also have them resurficed I guess. When I did my cams I replaced them.

Sorry, you were talking about suspention weren't you?

sprbxr

You can still get the RSR parts new. Not cheap but you can still get it. What does that guy want for the parts? I just bought some of that stuff new, and some of it used.

DrJupeman

$2100 without springs.

Sameer

Go with these below and you will be more than happy:

K27 High Flow(Stephen from Imagine Auto)
0.9 bar boost spring(the 3.3 turbo S and 3.6 turbo S came with it from factory) your ok just increase your CO
Cams

You will be more than happy just with these few mods above.

DrJupeman

Sameer, which cams? Also the N/A C2?

What will these cams do to my low end torque?

Sameer

DrJupeman,

The 964 or SC cams are a good choice. I forget, the headers and muffler will make a big difference. Let me list the mods that many of us do again below:

K27 High Flow(Stephen from Imagine Auto)
0.9 bar boost spring(the 3.3 turbo S and 3.6 turbo S(7.5 compression) came with it from factory) your ok just increase your CO between 3-4%
964 or SC Cams
headers and muffler
drill 6 to 7 1 inch size holes under your stock air box and replace with K&N air filter for better induction. Cheap but very good upgrade.
Additional oil cooler

The above is good enough and will keep you planted to your seat on full throttle.

If you do plan on rebuilding or some reason opening up your block than you should consider:
Port and polish intake manifold, intakes
Change to racing valve springs with titanium retainers
ARP or Raceware headstud and bolts
Nirisist your cylinder heads

You should seriously consider contacting the 2 below:
Stephen at Imagine Auto
or
Steve Weiner at Rennsport

There are many good tuners but the 2 above are experts in this field.

DrJupeman

I've been exchanging messages with Steve Weiner. Thanks for this list, Sameer. I will take it all into consideration!

KeithC2Turto

Steve W. Is youn man on suspention.

Cams, SC's for a 3.3 for mostly street driving. The factory knows more than us and went w the C2 normal cams on there C2Turbos for there sport purposes / IMSA turbos.

Again, get the K27-7006HF over the 7200HF for a 3.6 with track intentions for more HP and lower operating temps. The 7200 is a great turbo but for track or a bigger motor the 7006 is best. The 7006hf is basicaly a K29 hibrid w just a bit bigger & more effecent compressor wheel.

For over the top, the S2 intercooler that Andial made for the 1992 factory S2's. ths was used on the Porsche IMSA 2.2 turbo interys in 1992.

Have fun!