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Weird Intermittent Starting Problem, Low Beam Headlight Issue—Related?

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Old 12-17-2016, 11:45 AM
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ToniWonKanobi
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Question Weird Intermittent Starting Problem, Low Beam Headlight Issue—Related?

I'll try to organize my thoughts like a beta tester reporting bugs to Apple [through Radar ]

Summary:
  • When I bought my car, it had some intermittent starting problems
  • It would start sometimes, but not all times. I tried to pay attention and see whether it was only a hot/cold day, etc., but nothing apparent came to mind
  • When I bought the car, the passenger-side fog light was not functioning (thought it was a spent bulb, but I don't think that anymore)
  • [Note that I can actually start the car using a couple of methods, but both are not ideal—see below]
  • Some time ago, I noticed that the passenger fog light now works, but the passenger low beam, and the passenger amber side lights now no longer function

Steps to Reproduce:
  1. Place key in ignition
  2. Turn key all the way to the right
  3. Single click occurs (if lights are on, they flicker)
  4. Repeat several times
  5. Car still doesn't start

Expected Results:
  1. Place key in ignition
  2. Turn key all the way to the right
  3. Car starts

Actual Results:
  • I hear what I believe to be the starter attempt to do its thing (that starter turnover sound), but it just does it once.
  • I hear what I believe to be the some sort of blower in the engine compartment running every few seconds.

Regression:

Interestingly, I have found that if I run into this problem, I can actually start the car by using two methods:
Method A
  1. Place gear lever in reverse postion
  2. Foot not on clutch pedal (clutch is engaged)
  3. Foot on brake pedal (you'll understand why in a moment), or emergency brake lever applied
  4. Turn key all the way to the right
  5. Car begins to start, but immediately stalls and dies (because the clutch is engaged)
  6. Return key to full "left" position (remember that we cannot attempt two starts in the same rotation in these cars—the manual and Adrian's book speak of this)
  7. Turn key all the way to the right (again)
  8. Car starts immediately.

Method B
  1. "Push start" car like any non-drive-by-wire manual transmission vehicle
Notes:
  • I have ruled out a dead battery, because the starting problem wouldn't be intermittent (it would be constant, right?)
  • I feel like there has to be something electrical going on with the transmission, or maybe there's a short somewhere?
  • Why would placing the gear lever in reverse make it start?
  • Why would the foglight start working again, only to lose the low beam and passenger amber?

It's weird, right?

***

I finally got my car on some jack stands, in order to do what I thought was going to be a starter replacement. I ordered the starter when I noticed the starting problem. But when I discovered that I could use Method 1 to start the car, and when the light stuff starting going on, I thought more and more that it may not be the starter itself.

I ended up discovering that the little tube that holds the "shuttle" that attaches to the gear lever fork was actually loose in the tunnel. I'm going to be replacing the stock stuff with Rothsport bits, so I can't put the car back together and drive it to see if this had anything to do with the starter problem (at least not until I install that Rothsport stuff).

Any ideas Rennlist?
Old 12-17-2016, 02:11 PM
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justin-in-athens
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Sounds like a faulty ignition switch. Lots of things run through it. Just my guess.
Old 12-17-2016, 04:23 PM
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wallra
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try just turning the key just a little bit back and forth and see If the lights on the dash go on and off. sure sounds like the ignition switch. If this happens then it the electrical part of the ignition switch
Old 12-17-2016, 04:53 PM
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ToniWonKanobi
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Originally Posted by wallra
try just turning the key just a little bit back and forth and see If the lights on the dash go on and off. sure sounds like the ignition switch. If this happens then it the electrical part of the ignition switch
Can you be more specific about how to troubleshoot this?

You're saying:

1. Have the key in the full "Run" position (and/or car running?)
2. Wiggle it back and forth
3. If the "lights on the dash" (like the gauges that are backlit, or the "lights" as in all the hazard lights that tell me if something is wrong with the car) go on and off, it's an ignition problem?
Old 12-17-2016, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by justin-in-athens
Sounds like a faulty ignition switch. Lots of things run through it. Just my guess.
How would a faulty ignition switch be made "do-able" by placing the gear level in reverse and attempting a start? (I forgot to mention that it doesn't work in any other gear—just reverse.)
Old 12-17-2016, 06:56 PM
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justin-in-athens
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Like I said, there are a variety of wiring quirks in the 964. I am not aware of any gear position switch in a manual 964 like in the tiptronic. I cannot account for why the car would only start in reverse gear.
It could be a grounding issue maybe. The reverse lights and the fogs lights share the same fuse and there is a switch on the side of the transmission for the reverse lights. I would look closely in that area and check for backup light function.
Old 12-17-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by justin-in-athens
Like I said, there are a variety of wiring quirks in the 964. I am not aware of any gear position switch in a manual 964 like in the tiptronic. I cannot account for why the car would only start in reverse gear.
It could be a grounding issue maybe. The reverse lights and the fogs lights share the same fuse and there is a switch on the side of the transmission for the reverse lights. I would look closely in that area and check for backup light function.
The reverse lights and the [rear?] fog lights? Of course, US cars don't have the inside switch for the rear fog lights, but I think the wiring is still present in the center tail light section thingy? (Or were you talking about the front fog lights sharing a common fuse with the reverse lights—I guess I could just look up the fuse schematic and answer my own question...)



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