How rare is my 964?
11-20-2016, 11:50 AM
#31
Here's some inspiration for what your car could look like when done.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Porsche...m=252635922754
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Porsche...m=252635922754
11-27-2016, 07:37 PM
#35
Intermediate
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The Porsche Enthusiast Companion by Adrian Streather confirms your 1608 figure, but after that its anyone's guess. He does say the 1608 figure includes C4's,C2's and Tips. My guess is its as close to rare as you will get. I don't imagine that color was super popular and in conjunction with the Tip its likely rare. Not a fan of the color myself, but you don't drive color, and if you like it, then all is good. Good luck with it and please, when its all done, post a pic or two. Would love to see it.
11-27-2016, 08:45 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
11-28-2016, 09:46 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
The Porsche Enthusiast Companion by Adrian Streather confirms your 1608 figure, but after that its anyone's guess. He does say the 1608 figure includes C4's,C2's and Tips. My guess is its as close to rare as you will get. I don't imagine that color was super popular and in conjunction with the Tip its likely rare. Not a fan of the color myself, but you don't drive color, and if you like it, then all is good. Good luck with it and please, when its all done, post a pic or two. Would love to see it.
He used vin numbers 001 through 060 In fact all 964 vin numbers start at 061 for US spec cars. Same goes for the 928 and 968. So for every model and MY 964 there are 60 less than Adrian states. There are also a number of M718 coded cars that have been double counted since their vin numbers are counted twice. Once for the year they originally were slated for and a second time to the following year there vin numbers were changed to. The actual number of 964's is considerably lower than his book states making the 964 the lowest production 911 variant.
12-08-2016, 10:09 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
I discussed this with Adrian back when he first released his book. It lead to a revision to the initial release but more has been discovered since. It was a monumental task for him to sift through the mess Porsche called records.
I first realized this when Chuck Z a rennlist member and founder of the 928 registry now part of the 928 owners club help with all of the 928 production numbers and noticed that all of the US spec'd 928's began with the vin number 061. They were able to break down every car produced all option codes and color combos. Something we have been hoping for regarding the 964's but info is not yet available from the factory. I also ran a series of threads that asked people about their vin numbers and not one vin number under 061 has ever been confirmed. The US had a requirement that the first 60 cars for each MY be test mules for the purposes of meeting DOT requirements. If these cars were produced and destroyed is anyones guess.
This has been further verified with the release of Gabriel and Franz's book "Porsche 911 turbo Air-cooled years 1975-1998." I had shown Adrian that he made an error in his 94 MY turbo 3.6 numbers. He had double counted many cars that were M718 coded changing their vin numbers from a US spec P code to an R code. We verified that the first 288 of the cars were in fact M718 coded and that none of them have a vin number below x61. Also we realized that they were being double counted and he had some 754 US Spec turbos which was far too many. We know the last vin numbers of the cars produced so it is just simple math after that. Their book shows accurate numbers and only 335 US spec stock 94 turbos were imported along with the 15 package cars and the 39 turbo S flachbau. then they break down the 2 Canadian US spec Turbo S Package cars and 2 Canadian x88 turbos.
Add these numbers up and you get 406 US spec '94 964 turbos produced. We know the final vin #466 is a turbo S through Mark Smiths documentation Flachbau.com along with multiple other sources. So if the vin numbers started at xx1 there would be 466 instead of the 406 actually imported. There are also other threads that show that nobody can verify a US spec Porsche from this era as having a vin number below x61.
Adrian has the last vin numbers of all the 964's listed but he has them starting at xx1. If you subtract 60 cars for each MY each model type it adds up and reduces the number of US spec 964's considerably.
One day I will find the time to compare the total number of ROW turbos produced against Adrian's numbers and see if there are any differences. They put a lot of work into the turbo book and I have every reason to believe their numbers are accurate.
If you do the math the 964 is one of the rarest US spec air cooled 911 produced. The numbers are very few and as you know that nearly bankrupted Porsche in the 1990's.
I first realized this when Chuck Z a rennlist member and founder of the 928 registry now part of the 928 owners club help with all of the 928 production numbers and noticed that all of the US spec'd 928's began with the vin number 061. They were able to break down every car produced all option codes and color combos. Something we have been hoping for regarding the 964's but info is not yet available from the factory. I also ran a series of threads that asked people about their vin numbers and not one vin number under 061 has ever been confirmed. The US had a requirement that the first 60 cars for each MY be test mules for the purposes of meeting DOT requirements. If these cars were produced and destroyed is anyones guess.
This has been further verified with the release of Gabriel and Franz's book "Porsche 911 turbo Air-cooled years 1975-1998." I had shown Adrian that he made an error in his 94 MY turbo 3.6 numbers. He had double counted many cars that were M718 coded changing their vin numbers from a US spec P code to an R code. We verified that the first 288 of the cars were in fact M718 coded and that none of them have a vin number below x61. Also we realized that they were being double counted and he had some 754 US Spec turbos which was far too many. We know the last vin numbers of the cars produced so it is just simple math after that. Their book shows accurate numbers and only 335 US spec stock 94 turbos were imported along with the 15 package cars and the 39 turbo S flachbau. then they break down the 2 Canadian US spec Turbo S Package cars and 2 Canadian x88 turbos.
Add these numbers up and you get 406 US spec '94 964 turbos produced. We know the final vin #466 is a turbo S through Mark Smiths documentation Flachbau.com along with multiple other sources. So if the vin numbers started at xx1 there would be 466 instead of the 406 actually imported. There are also other threads that show that nobody can verify a US spec Porsche from this era as having a vin number below x61.
Adrian has the last vin numbers of all the 964's listed but he has them starting at xx1. If you subtract 60 cars for each MY each model type it adds up and reduces the number of US spec 964's considerably.
One day I will find the time to compare the total number of ROW turbos produced against Adrian's numbers and see if there are any differences. They put a lot of work into the turbo book and I have every reason to believe their numbers are accurate.
If you do the math the 964 is one of the rarest US spec air cooled 911 produced. The numbers are very few and as you know that nearly bankrupted Porsche in the 1990's.
12-08-2016, 02:47 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
OP - Looking forward to seeing your restored 964! Cool color...reminds me of a Euro RS, which is my favorite variant of the series. Nevermind the comments about the color or the transmission - with 964s becoming more and more collectable, I would leave this car configured the way it once left Zuffenhausen. It's not a bad transmission anyway...I just watched an old Motorweek on You Tube that covered the 964 C2 Tip, and they loved it.
Cobalt - You are a walking Porsche encyclopedia, my friend! So how rare is my Amazon 1992 C2?
Cobalt - You are a walking Porsche encyclopedia, my friend! So how rare is my Amazon 1992 C2?