koenig_roland

hi Guys,
i`m planning the next upgrades at my blue Qpe. The car is a pure weekend racer, does some trackdays every year and has no daily duties...

Car is a C4 with some improvements :-)

I`ve fitted an euro RS suspension with cup dampers... Sways are 24mm H&R sway in the front and the euro RS sway in the back.

As improvement for the top-mounts, i`ve bought some RS unibal mounts. This is the fixed part of my next upgrade...

But, i plan also doing some upgrades at the bushings.

Should i go with unibal or should i go with some PU bushings?! I would prefer, going the unibal route, but it`s far more expensive than the PU stuff...

What do you think: is the unibal stuff good value for money or do you think it is enough to do PUs?!

An intermediate solution could be, doing unibal in the rear and PU in the front wishbones..

What do you think?

thx

scped

I can't provide real world feedback as yet, but I am replacing all with monoballs - with one exception. The front control arms are getting Walrod PU bushings.

koenig_roland

which unibal/bushing brand do you use for the rear? i`m in the states in the next weeks and could buy the stuff there and bring it home by myself

scped

The rear control arm monoballs are from fvd, and the spring plates are from tarett.

Bill Verburg

p/u is a poor choice for automotive bushes, why do people use them you ask? because they are cheap.

for a street car get sport hardness rubber, as was used on the 993RS, for track use go w/ uniball. note that not all uniball are created equal.

the 964Rs stiffened the trailing arm w/ washers


If buying in the US the 2 big suppliers are Rennline and Elephant, w/ some others also in the game.

I use some Rennline and some Elephant components, can't go wrong w/ either.

kos11-12

Hi Thilo
I have the Powerflex at the front for many years they seams to work well, for the back ;
Elephant racing in USA as a good compromise between the mono *****, a few Rennlister recommend , they also have a replacement for the rear camber plate rubber bush ,
a bit expensive but I recon it still worth it !!

heeltoejunkie

Also consider if you are paying for labor to the bushing replacement or DIY'ing it. It's a labor intensive job.

I'm a fan of Eisenlohr Racing Products

Santa Cruz Red

As it would appear that you'll be in "the neighborhood" soon enough, stop by Elephant Racing and talk to Chuck Moreland, owner. They're across the freeway from the San Jose Airport. Chuck will give you the straight story and even recommend other vendors if what you're looking for is not within the scope of his products. No affiliation... just a satisfied customer.

koenig_roland

thx guys!

chuck is on my "list". A friend of mine does a monthly bizz-trip to SF area and recommended me elefant racing for my purpose.

My main question is: is a unibal bushing ok for my "racy" Qpe, or do i`ve to expect benting sway-bars, cracks in the body and a bouncing car at all?!

I expect a stiff, quite loud, very precise and direct handling a perfect feeling for the road... Do i`ve to go with a sport rubber bushing or unibal? I guess, this sport-rubber stuff satisfies me not completely.

In my convertible, i upgraded to PU bushings some years ago in the front wishbones... good handling and no problems so far... but that`s a soft convertible...

The blue car has to be honest and taff!

tjb616

I don't have many monoball/heim/rose joints in my 964 (although I have used them extensively in other applications) but I can honestly say I've never read or heard about any of those issues as a result of anything short of an impact with a large immovable object. The bounce will be determined by your damper and spring, not your bushings.

Spyerx

Check my build thread. Since you've already jumped over the line with cup dampers etc, go monoball.

mine is ALL monoball and with the right springs / damping setups the ride is quite good. Sure, you feel more, but it's completely tolerable on our crap roads here in California. The smooth glass of german roads you should be FINE!!!! Best of all the car is super direct, and you know its the car and road talking to you, not some 25yr old rubber bushings messing with the suspension working.

So, monoballs in the front a-arms, in the rear monoball spring plates, swing arm monoball.

You can look at my build thread in my sig for lots of pics of what this looks like.

koenig_roland

I've ordered the full spherical kit @ FVD. We can start with the next modifcation session 😊

koenig_roland

next questions:


the bushings are here, no i`ve to decide the spring plates.

1.)
Should i go with elefant replacement stuff or should i go with ERP plates? The orig. bushing in the spring plate is something like a sperical bushing?! There is not much room for movement - that`s my information... is there a difference between rennline, erp, tarret spring-plate?! Did i miss an other solution that`s out there available?!

2.) inner tie rods: my outer tie rods are not that old (20k kilometers). They`re going to stay. but what is with inner tie rods? Does anybody have a order-number for me?! Does my C4 has eventually the "good" stuff?!

3.)
wheel bearings: that stuff is quite cheap. When i`ll order at rosepassion, wheel bearings are really cheap. Any prefered brand or does this not really matter?! It the front / rear wheel bearing at the 964 C4 really the same?!

4.)
i`m going to restore a spare set of trailing arms and wishbones... so everything should not look like new afterwards, but better than now. Should i replace the handbrake-cable?! No problem with my current cable, but i know this as a consumption part from other manufacturers... it this here also a problematic part? I`ve not heared about problems with the cable yet... (and i`ve not an endless budget for this winter :-))

5.)
prophylactic re-seal of the power-steering rack? how to proceed with an good an dry steering-rack? i guess i can leave it as it is... (because next year, i`ll try to replace the pump with an electrical unit...)

thx and regards from frankfurt

thilo

Goughary

Erp spring plates are better in terms of reducing weisach effect. And the eventually replacement of the rod end is fairly simple- and that rod end won't last very long in street car terms. I like them - and purely from a performance perspective, I would have used them in my recent builds, but I opted for the elephant bushings because it seems they will last longer as a replacement. I don't want to have to go back in there for 10+ years.

That said. I'm kicking myself a little for that oh so wimpy decision. I want as close to zero weissach effect - and the erp plates are better in that regard.

Next. Inner tie rods. C4 inner tie rods are the way to go. For either a c2 or a C4. They last a very long time. So check them before making the choice to do both inner and outer. They are way too expensive from porsche. I've been thinking to find or develop a poly bushing replacement - which would be even better, and just offering that to guys that want an upgrade. It'd cost around 30 dollars to do that vs 100s from porsche.

Wheel bearings. *** bearings are fine, to a degree. Their quality control sucks. So if you choose *** as a brand, pull the seals and make sure they have enough grease. And if not, clean them out and replace with redline wheel bearing grease.
Otherwise go with oem bearings. But bearings are incredibly easy to replace, so don't worry too much abt it.

Don't replace your e brake cable. You said "there is no issue" - so there is your answer.
That said, if your cable hasn't been out of the trailing arm, it may be stuck. And it'll seem to be welded in place. It's only in there with an o-ring. So if it stuck, squirt penetrating oil of some kind on both sides and let that sit. Then grip the fitting behind the trailing arm nice and tight and wiggle it loose. A few of ours took quite a lot of time and force.

Steering rack. I would love to reseal mine. But it works for now, even though it leaks a bit under serious use. My thoughts for myself are to wait and put money aside over time for a rebuilt unit, and eventually swap one for the other. This way the car isn't out of commission for too long.
You say you will change for electric. I wouldn't bother with that expense myself, only because what we have is very good as-is. But if/when you do that, I'd love to hear the feedback.

Hope any of that helps. Feel free to get in touch if you have issues. Happy to talk you through any of it.

koenig_roland

hi Goughary,
thx for your comprehensive feedback.

to assume short: i`ll stick with my inner tie rod, as it is a C4. Outer - ***** are quite fresh. brake-cable will also remain as it is. The wheel bearings from rose do not name a brand in their offer... i have to look around, how to the price-structure of the different brands is.... i guess, everything is better than a 200tKM bearing...

steering rack conversion to electrical pump seems to be a straight forward job. There are some DIY here on rennlist. I guess, i`ll use a mercedes a-class pump... but that`s just a future upgrade..

Spring-plates:
I`m not convinced of the elefant solution for my purpose. I visited chuck in SF some weeks ago. Nice guy and his knowledge seems to be over the top, but i`ll try to remove every rubber part from my suspension.. i think i`ll go with ERP/Tarret spring plates... With the unibal sleve - offered from tarret to prevent the influence from outside from the sensitive unibal - i see no big disadvantage or reduced live-time... if the suspension need a next overhaul in ~5 years and is brilliant and offers a crystal clear feedback during this period... this is my way to go! :-)