golfnutintib

this is correct

mooty

i built several cars ground up. nothing as complete as singer. my pos would have been at 250k with zero profit. and that's discouting labor and many other items. singer engine is not 30k. a good slide valve 4.0 will be 60-70k motor...

wish i can afford one.
but if you can do a singer for $400k, you will take them out of business in two days.

and currently singer are not 400k, it's a LOT more than that now.

Undutched

double post

Undutched

I'm not from the states and just making estimates. I was thinking something may be off, but I don't have enough info. I was also thinking it may cost some money for the molds, etc. but couldn't guess on the cost of those.

The high risk of this venture simply means the returns need to be fitting, as they cant build these cars for 15-20 years, but more for 5 years and then need to move to the next project/s.
Thanks for the clarification. On the Singer site it simply says, starting from 390,000$

Jay911

Body Type Price
Body Style: Singer Coupe Restoration with 270 HP 3.6L engine - 964 not incl
$395,000.00
Singer Targa Restoration with 270 HP 3.6L engine - 964 not incl
$440,000.00

Engine Upgrade Price
Engine: 350 HP 3.8L engine
$45,000.00
390 HP 4.0L engine
$85,000.00

Plenum Price
Inlet Manifold: Ceramic Inlet Manifold
standard
Nickel Plated Engine Air Intake Manifold
$4,000.00

Drivetrain
Transmission Price
Gearbox: Getrag™ G50 5 Speed w/ LSD
standard
Getrag™ G50 6 Speed Close Ratio Gear Sets w/ LSD
$15,000.00
Getrag™ G50 6 Speed with Four Wheel Drive
$45,000.00

Chassis and Body
Body Configuration Price
Chassis Integrity: Seam/Stitch Welding of Chassis
$10,000.00
Roof: Electric Sun Roof
$5,500.00
Carbon Fiber Roof
standard

Safety Price
Roll Bar: Integrated Roll Bar Upholstered in Leather
$5,500.00
Harness Bar: Integrated Harness Bar with Schroth™ 4-Point Racing Harnesses
$4,200.00

Suspension Price
Packages: Adjustable Suspension
standard
Ohlins™ Sport Adjustable Suspension Package
$12,500.00

Brakes Price
Packages: Brembo™ Brake Package
standard
Singer Brembo™ Big Brake Upgrade Package
$8,200.00
Carbon Ceramic Rotors w/Big Brembo™ Calipers in Special Color
$22,000.00
Color: Brembo™ Brake Calipers Finished in Special Color
$2,200.00

Wheels and Tires Price
Additional Wheel Sets: Second Wheel Set with R Compound Tires
$12,500.00

Exterior
Fuel Tank and Oil Tank Price
Fuel Tank: Stock 911 Fuel Tank and Filler
standard
External Center Fill Gas Cap with Fuel Safety Cell
$10,000.00
Oil Tank: Stock 911 Oil Tank and Filler
standard
External Oil Cap Located in Rear Fender
$5,000.00

Exterior Trim Price
Bumpers : Rear Bumperettes in Body Color
standard
Rear Bumperettes in Nickel Plate
$2,000.00
Bumper and Rocker Touring Trim (includes Nickel Bumperettes)
$15,000.00
Finishing Trim: Racing Side Stripes
$3,500.00
Decklid Lettering: Raised Gold Decklid Lettering
$5,000.00

Finishes Price
Paint : Paint in 1 of 75 Specially Formulated Singer Colors
standard
Paint to Sample
$6,500.00
Protection: Clear Film Paint Protection System
$4,250.00

Interior
Electronics Price
Stereo: Stereo AM/FM Radio w/USB/iPod™ Connectivity and Bluetooth
standard
Hi-Fi Upgrade Package: Amplifier, Speakers, Removable Subwoofer
$8,500.00
Satellite Radio : Satellite Radio Module (USA)
$2,000.00
Digital Audio Broadcasting Radio Module (EU)
$2,500.00

Carpeting and Interior Paneling Price
Carpeting: Floor, Sills and Rear in German Weave or Velour Carpet
standard
Trim Options: Sills and Transmission Tunnel Partially Upholstered in Leather
$3,700.00
Interior Paneling Finished in Body Color/Leather
$7,500.00

Upholstery Price
Seat Options: Brass Seat Grommets
$1,000.00
Leather: Leather Upholstered Interior
standard
Leather Upgrade Package - Suede
$4,000.00
Leather Upgrade Package - Embossed
$5,000.00
Leather Upgrade Package - Leatherweave
$7,500.00
Leather Upgrade Package - Special Leatherweave
$15,000.00

Seating Price
Carbon Fiber Removable Rear Seat Backrests : (Only Available with Harness Bar)
$3,000.00
8-Way Electrical Adjustment for Driver & Passenger Seats: (Only Available with Touring or Sports Seats)
$6,500.00
Driver Seat: Singer Edition Recaro™ Touring Seat
standard
Singer Edition Recaro™ Sport Seat
$4,000.00
Singer Edition Recaro™ Carbon Fiber Track Seat
$5,400.00
Passenger Seat: Singer Edition Recaro™ Touring Seat
standard
Singer Edition Recaro™ Sport Seat
$4,000.00
Singer Edition Recaro™ Carbon Fiber Track Seat
$5,400.00

HVAC System Price
Air Conditioning: Air Conditioning
standard
Air Conditioning Delete
standard



Summary
Body Type
Body Style Singer Coupe Restoration with 270 HP 3.6L engine - 964 not incl $395,000.00

Plenum
Inlet Manifold Ceramic Inlet Manifold standard

Transmission
Gearbox Getrag™ G50 5 Speed w/ LSD standard

Body Configuration
Roof Carbon Fiber Roof standard

Suspension
Packages Adjustable Suspension standard

Brakes
Packages Brembo™ Brake Package standard

Fuel Tank and Oil Tank
Fuel Tank Stock 911 Fuel Tank and Filler standard
Oil Tank Stock 911 Oil Tank and Filler standard

Exterior Trim
Bumpers Rear Bumperettes in Body Color standard

Finishes
Paint Paint in 1 of 75 Specially Formulated Singer Colors standard

Electronics
Stereo Stereo AM/FM Radio w/USB/iPod™ Connectivity and Bluetooth standard

Carpeting and Interior Paneling
Carpeting Floor, Sills and Rear in German Weave or Velour Carpet standard

Upholstery
Leather Leather Upholstered Interior standard

Seating
Driver Seat Singer Edition Recaro™ Touring Seat standard
Passenger Seat Singer Edition Recaro™ Touring Seat standard

HVAC System
Air Conditioning Air Conditioning standard
Total: $395,000.00

cobalt

Interesting numbers. These are purchase price but what are the actual costs? If you fully option a 964 you can easily exceed $700k above the cost of a 964. that is insane. Most of the options are so heavily marked up it is rediculous.

I spent 30 years of my life manufacturing custom fabricated parts in a large variety of materials, tooling, castings, custom artwork, auto restoration, building restoration custom lighting and so much more for commercial, defense and aerospace. The actual costs are not as high as you might think. My mark up was a minimum of 500% and in some cases ranged between 1500- 3000% over my costs and these numbers are very high. Tooling to do custom intakes would cost around $4000 if reverse engineered if I had a CAD file considerably less, castings would run between $500 and $1000 depending on number ordered at one time including temper, machining a few hundred, nickel plating less than a hundred. At $4000 he should amortize the tooling costs very quickly. Integrated harness bar with belts for $4,200 seriously? You can buy exact factory replicas of the chrome bumperettes for under $400 a pair. Doing a side oil tank and filler cap should not cost nearly as much. Again tanks are now being reproduced cheap and the rest is easy. $2200 for custom brake caliper colors again seriously?

$1000 for brass grommets in the seats they're joking right? I have a local guy who does custom leather work that could replicate the work of the singer seat including brass grommets embossed leather etc for under a grand a seat and he is pricey but a master.

Most of the prices are so heavily inflated it is crazy. You can do this for a heck of alot less and have an equally good product. No doubt there is a lot put into the R&D of the engine and other systems. Although the money is in there and I will continue to say there is no way this is not a cash cow at these prices.

It is a nice product but at these prices build your own and have something uniquely you. Once he started mass producing them he lost his enthusiast status IMO and became a business and only a business.

02m2

Are you the same guy that sold the military the $900 toilet seat and $1500 hammer ?...lol

cobalt

No not enough profit in those. LOL

Mostly magnesium parts for the blackhawk, seahawk, Super Stallion, Chanock, Hawkeye etc. I had several business, on the commercial side I did custom work for Martha Stewart, Mariah Carey, Mike Tyson, several Popes, just to name a few. I have a ton of parts on pebble beach winning brass era cars and numerous classic ferraris, alfas etc all made from the originals without any tooling which is not an easy task when factoring in shrinkage.

I had the pleasure of being mentored by some of the greatest craftsman of an era now lost with experience back to the 30's. When these guys passed an entire skillset was permanently lost and I was lucky enough to be able to be part of some amazing projects. I especially enjoyed working on 1 to 1 and 1/2 scale cutaway versions of jet engines and other display pieces. All the precision without the paperwork. What they were able to do back then with nothing more than a slide rule and piece of paper would blow your mind and computers can see what doesn't work but these guys could see how to make it work in their heads.

There are a handful of guys like this left but very few.

Archer911

We call it "Stupid Money" here. It applies mostly to real estate, but cars, and certainly creations like singer Porsches fall into that category. I don't mean that idiots are buying them, it's just that the money may not be hard earned or the purchase examined that closely. I don't want to be judgmental here, because that is when the pisssssing contests start, but to a fairly analytical and reasonable guy some things just don't compute. One of the few good things about getting old is the wisdom that, if you're lucky, comes with aches, pains, lessons learned, etc.

As I said early on in this thread I love the way Singer 911s look. Are they worth it? Is there value there? if you compare them to other new cars you could buy in this price range, or below this price range NO FFFFFING WAY! NO WAY! We could start a list or quote some of the silly auction prices for vintage 930s, etc.

You guys have done some cool analysis and from your personal experiences have shed light on the value of creations like Singer 911s. That's what's good about these forum discussions.

02m2

very impressive..lost art..true craftsmanship.

NoSub Dan

I like the semi-ducktail spoiler. Anyone seen one of those?