I apologize if this was discussed before, but recently I've been thinking about the cars and how modern technology has really made significant improvements to the cars in terms of both power and fuel efficiency.

Today, a 3.6L engine should easily be able to output 300hp, while still being very fuel efficient, which in my (not very informed) opinion is made possible due to modern sensors and electronics.

If one were to change the EMS to a more modern system, where fuel maps can be carefully created - would this potentially solve the terrible fuel economy and improve power output? If so, why hasn't this been done before (or maybe it has, but I just don't know it).

Thoughts?

 

Google: 964 VEMS

Cheers

 

Search this forum for Motec as well.

 

I can't recommend VEMS based on my experience and that of several other in this group.

Specialist Components system isn't quite as good on paper but the easier experience of the users in the rennlist group makes it better choice
http://twinkam.co.uk/epages/191f6b26...ategories/7/29

Motec is also great but you do pay for the name.

 

Stand-alone isn't going to get you anything more than a good custom chip ever will. +10hp at best for a stock motor. Maybe +0.5mpg. Stand-alone is easy to fiddle with, but that's it. Pickup a Steve Wong chip and be done. He has very good product.

 

Don't understand negative 964 VEMS comments. I have had on my car for years, custom married to work with varioram and I am pulling over 300 hp based on DYNO runs.
Have not changed any internal components. Easy to work with and tune.

 

The important thing to remember is that the factory has invested thousands of man hours mapping factory ECUs. All the atermarket guys really can do is make adjustments to allow for the changes in the fuel we have now versus what was available years ago. More than that is jut looking for trouble.
I have seen the damage caused by aftermarket chips when used under track type conditions though they are fine with normal street use.
I've installed systems from Motec and Haltech and worked with ones from Electromotive, Autronic-etc, And they work but dont underestimate the time involved in tuning every map.
The one big advantage standalones have is they allow removal of the Air flow meter-a major hindrance to airflow. That is the reason the Specialist components stuff gives substantial gains.

 

I've got no problem with VEMS, etc., but there are few exceptions where they are warranted. A varioram conversion would definitely be one. Not leaving well-enough alone is another.

prschmn- Welcome to the forum. Not sure what your previous experience is, but afm is proven to not be a hindrance on the 964 until you get into substantial power increases and engine modifications. Whatever gains Specialist Components is claiming will come solely from pushing the timing. VEMS readily admits as much. Any stand alone is making the same timing adjustments as you would with a chip. The only advantage is their flexibility. You can safely bump the timing in the stock maps and there are gains to be had, especially at part-throttle.

Assuming your chip is reputable. At worst, factory knock control will kick in. You won't damage anything with a poorly made chip, unless you're pushing past the factory redline. Setting up that failsafe in aftermarket systems is much more tricky, and that's when you're much more likely to cause damage.

 

Here's what I'm reading so far:

1. There aren't any significant power gains over a tuned chip replacement
2. There aren't any significant fuel economies to be had either

So... why are modern cars so much more fuel efficient and have so much higher HP/L? (outside of variable cam timing/turbos) How would one go about getting at least 100hp/l? As a comparison, Hondas are getting 125 while still being very reliable.

 

It's nothing to do with volume and everything todo with design otherwise 38ltr Bentley engines of old would be producing 3800bhp

 

Its easy to make more power with a higher rpm and its easy to make a small engine rev higher without spending big money. Make yours rev and you can have 100hp per litre, just be on good terms with your bank manager. As for reliability I assure you there won't be any v-tec motors with 250k miles on original bottom ends where as there are many flat sixes.

 

Nick, Absolutely agree with your reference to pushing timing. A pic of a customers parts from a chipped wit that went to WGI despite my advice! Almost like a Plasma cutter.

 

Ouch! But, that's kind of neat. Local shop has a shelf of melted pistons and catastrophically destroyed parts. Fun to look at.

ps- was that a 3.2? Or a 964 with motronic?

 

A 993tt