Ravioliv

Albins Australia replied me they can provide a 8:32 but same price as FVD....

About re gearing a box, pending Mr GTgears information about his kit, I don't really want to fit a 993 box as I could understand some modification where required as the box is longer....And I almost found a spare G50-03 with LSD so that I keep one box in original condition just in case I want to go back to standard "quickly"....

GTgears

Hello Ravioliv,

We make pretty much all the factory homologated ratios for a the Cup Cars. That's over a dozen choices for 3rd gear alone. It's not just a single "package". It would be determined by your desired top speed and working backwards from there for the best splits.

One warning I would make is that our products are race parts. The gears make noise. They are not street car quiet. If you want them street quiet you may want to look at getting some street GT3 gears for at least 3rd and 4th. But that wouldn't be an option for 2nd or 5th.

Regards,

Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC

Ravioliv

Okayy...
Thanks for the reply, indeed I want my car to remain usable on roads while enjoying engine noise rather than gear whinning ...

I am locked on the final gear but tought it would be the simplest and cheapest option...

Looking at prices I start to have doubts...

Actually I would like shorter 2/3/4...don't really care about the 5th but would may be strange to have a big gap between 4 and 5...
My concern is that:
On twisty roads I just shift to 3rd before having to brake and shift down so not really occasion to "stretch the legs" in 3rd....
On track, on medium corners, as I don't like to shift down in 2nd at high rev then catching the limiter mid corner, I tend to keep 3rd but frequently end up too low like below 4000rpm....
So I think Having a shorter 3rd would be ideal...

Not sure if it is possible to take gears from GT3 or any other stock box and get "good" results...I would think GT3 would have even longer gearing than 964 due to the power....?

ThomasC2

My priority is track but I’ve had the same thoughts because the problem is the same. A 8:32 helps in some situations but it doesn’t solve the main issue which is the gap around 3rd gear. This makes you use the 3rd gear way to much because the 2nd gets to short and 4th to tall. So what you want is a tranny with even gaps all the way and you can achieve this by replacing 3-4-5th gear and move them down towards 2nd gear. The top speed will be more or less the same as with a 8:32,

ThomasC2

fff

ThomasC2

I can't post any more text?! Half of my previous text just disappears?

cobalt

Pete Tremper recommended the 8:32 to a friend and felt it was a worthwhile upgrade. He is quite fast in his 964.

BTW who says a 6 speed 993 box doesn't bolt in. They both are the same overall length. I have one in my 90 C4 no issue.

hockenheimr

Cobalt is correct, I had a 5-speed and a 6-speed side-by-side for a long time and they are the same length.

I looked at the 32:8 R&P as well and everyone credible advised against it.

If you're going to take apart your trans then factor in the costs of bearings as they are not cheap.

Ravioliv

Well
About the 993 gearbox I saw it in this link ( sorry in French )
http://www.csa911.com/modules.php?na...article&sid=20

http://911csa.pagesperso-orange.fr/i.../boite9932.jpg

But maybe it is no big deal just changing the cross member....

But I struggle to see where the 993 box will brng a big benefit VS the 5speed G50...OK you have 1 more gear but top speed is still super high and not sure you get the feeling of a proper short transmission....

Regarding the opinion against the 8:32, except the fact of not solving the 2 to 3 gap, what are the "cons"?....

cobalt

There is little benefit IMO to mounting a 993 box without doing the internals. Mine has been completely regeared with hardened steel parts replacing brass. The length is the same. Only the end housing is different. You can use the 6 speed mounting cross member but not the two steel support bars the 6 speed cross member is different and has longer tabs on one side. It makes mounting the fiberglass shield impossible but I drilled 3 holes in the cover to allow room for the bolt heads to poke through which allowed me to install it.

Only have this picture of it mounted in my 90 C4 but it gives you an idea and shows it can be done.

As far as the R&P change look closely at Bill's comparison chart. You can see the changes which are significant to speed change for each gear. Guess it all depends what you are trying to achieve. My 6 speed is geared like the G50/30 he has posted. It is nice for most of the tracks i have visited but the power gets down so fast I find I am using 3rd, 4th and 5th and once I get more accustomed to the car will be using 6th on some tracks while in my C2 I was using just 2nd and 3rd. It just gets there faster with the added power so it requires more shifting but gives you better control overall.

Bill Verburg

look at the details, all you need to know is in the tables I posted
you
table
/03 speed in gears 2,3,4 69,101,131
/21 speed in gears 2,3,4 66, 91, 113

analysis
the lower the speed in a gear the greater the acceleration in that gear for a shorter period of time

you
table
/03 gap from 4 to 5, 25%
/21 gap from 4 to 5 21%, from 5 to 6 25%
/30 gap from 4 to 5 18%, from 5 to 6 16%

analysis
yes a big gap is awkward, relatively torquey street motors can handle 25% gap w/ aplomb, in a racing box w/ a more temperamental motor w/ a narrower power band you want less of a gap, the /30 is the factory race box used in all 993 Cup and some RSR, even w/ a stock 3.6 a somewhat narrower gap is beneficial in keeping the motor in the fattest part of the power band longer.

a 993 6 speed is an easy bolt in to a 964.
in general the advantage of a 6 over a 5 w/ the same top speed is the smaller gaps between the gears, but the trans can be set up for different net results, for instance a g50/20 6 speed would have a much higher top speed and would not be what you are looking for.

Ravioliv

Hello
Thanks for all interesting replies.
First of all, budget is a factor as well, so re-gearing is probably twince the money of a 8:32?....

Understand perfectly that the final drive won’t solve the rpm drop between 2 and 3…..but all becoming shorter and without going into mathematical stuff ( sometimes useful I reckon ) I would think the “new” 2nd will become something fun in hairpins ( instead of shifting down to 1st that is very quickly catching limiter )…..not speaking about hooligan drifting but more “traction management “ 
And “new” 3rd, evntough having still a gap with 2nd will be more appropriate for mid size corners where usually today I have to chose between being too high rpm in 2nd or too low in 3rd…

But again open to other ideas especially if regearing 3/4/5 is not that more expensive than 8:32 with similar results + benefit of keeping 1 & 2 “usable”

I have this video of a friend with an RS fitted with 8:32 and just love the way engines rev more freely…..

cobalt

Are you sure your friend isn't running a LWF? Also I am assuming he is an advanced driver running in a less advanced run session?

IIRC a new 8:32 runs around $2300 or so for parts plus rebuild new gears 3/4/5 should run you around the same so it is probably close. Unless you can source good used parts.

Ravioliv

Yes my friend has a LWF ( so do I.... eventough I did not find a massive difference in feel to be honest...)
The driver is an advanced driver ( don't know about the others bu t definitely less than him ) as he is the chief engineer who tests all high performance Michelin tyres and the track is own Michelin test track....so yes he is fast ( actually my friend is the one taking the passenger's seat not the driver )
Any way the point was not to show how fast he is with a 8:32 but the engine character and ease to rev that is definitely different from my car....( OK this one is an RS but....)

OK, so in the end shortening is similar with re-gearing and not that much more expensive...well why not....
Need to find the right parts now....

GTgears

Your 3rd is a 1.41. A stock 993 turbo or 996 gt3 is 1.56. A 997 gt3 is 1.62. With one of our adapter bearing kits (to change from 50mm to 47mm idlers) any of these factory options will work along with a 6spd 3/4 slider assembly.

3 gears are roughly $3400. A ring and pinion is around $3000. The ring and pinion is $400-500 more labor to install. It is a wash.