Engine longevity
09-16-2015, 11:42 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Engine longevity
I am looking at 964s, and I have noticed by reading through various threads here that many of these engines have been rebuilt/replaced at around 100k miles. Is this normal? My '89 Carrera had 170k on the original motor with no issues. Thanks.
09-16-2015, 12:33 PM
#6
Race Car
Engine longevity
Most haven't been rebuilt. Many on the forum, have had top end rebuilds, and some have had full rebuild down to the crank.
Most didn't need it. Some needed it, and some wouldn't run without it.
You've got a few things at play. Your average 911 owner isn't on rennlist. That's first. So you don't hear from the happy guy at home who just smirks when he sees the inevitable oil on the garage floor and drives away...he's not a forum guy, and most aren't.
Forum people tend to be two types. Fixers and modders. Both are way more likely to open the motor to fix something that doesn't really "need" to be fixed. Fixers will fix something that's broken or go after marginable hp gains. Modders will fix things that aren't broken, make things look cooler, and go after massive hp gains where they rarely get much at all, but have gone down a slippery slope getting there...if you hang with either group, you will begin to believe that much work is to be done, when really, in most cases, it would have been ok to let it go and drive the car...
I'll give an example. I bought my car w 58k on it. Engine tray was on. Traffic, and subsequent burnt valves, crap caked all over everything. Oil dripping from everywhere it could find a place to drip from. Car ran fine. Cold, it had zero compression. But there was a strange noise. A tick I didn't like. Felt slow. Wasn't perfect.
I spent 20k doing a top end rebuild. Slippery slope, replaced everything. Car since, runs fine. Feels slow (because it is), and no longer drips. Did I need the rebuild? Thought I did. Maybe I did. Glad I did. But it ran. And it isn't faster.
Cold, zero compression. Hot, had compression, just not perfect. I likely gained a few hp doing the top end build, but on the street, not being timed, you just aren't going to notice (in real terms).
Well maintained, these cars will literally go forever. Lack of maintenance, and they will need maintenance. No big deal.
If I were looking to buy one, however, since so many of us have rebuilt the motors, I'd be looking for a car with a good rebuild. More because most of the people driving up the prices don't really understand what they are looking at, and will pay a huge premium for lower miles, and a higher miles car with better maintenance will go cheaper and would usually be a better car, because it's owners made it that way.
Most didn't need it. Some needed it, and some wouldn't run without it.
You've got a few things at play. Your average 911 owner isn't on rennlist. That's first. So you don't hear from the happy guy at home who just smirks when he sees the inevitable oil on the garage floor and drives away...he's not a forum guy, and most aren't.
Forum people tend to be two types. Fixers and modders. Both are way more likely to open the motor to fix something that doesn't really "need" to be fixed. Fixers will fix something that's broken or go after marginable hp gains. Modders will fix things that aren't broken, make things look cooler, and go after massive hp gains where they rarely get much at all, but have gone down a slippery slope getting there...if you hang with either group, you will begin to believe that much work is to be done, when really, in most cases, it would have been ok to let it go and drive the car...
I'll give an example. I bought my car w 58k on it. Engine tray was on. Traffic, and subsequent burnt valves, crap caked all over everything. Oil dripping from everywhere it could find a place to drip from. Car ran fine. Cold, it had zero compression. But there was a strange noise. A tick I didn't like. Felt slow. Wasn't perfect.
I spent 20k doing a top end rebuild. Slippery slope, replaced everything. Car since, runs fine. Feels slow (because it is), and no longer drips. Did I need the rebuild? Thought I did. Maybe I did. Glad I did. But it ran. And it isn't faster.
Cold, zero compression. Hot, had compression, just not perfect. I likely gained a few hp doing the top end build, but on the street, not being timed, you just aren't going to notice (in real terms).
Well maintained, these cars will literally go forever. Lack of maintenance, and they will need maintenance. No big deal.
If I were looking to buy one, however, since so many of us have rebuilt the motors, I'd be looking for a car with a good rebuild. More because most of the people driving up the prices don't really understand what they are looking at, and will pay a huge premium for lower miles, and a higher miles car with better maintenance will go cheaper and would usually be a better car, because it's owners made it that way.
09-16-2015, 01:15 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
....also the 964/993 uses the "Metzger" engine and it is used as the base for the 996/997 Turbo's and GT3's, including the racing versions of the GT3. It is one stout motor!
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09-16-2015, 02:22 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Engine longevity
Originally Posted by Earlydays
....also the 964/993 uses the "Metzger" engine and it is used as the base for the 996/997 Turbo's and GT3's, including the racing versions of the GT3. It is one stout motor!
09-16-2015, 02:32 PM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I believe that the GT3 block actually has a 964 part number?! Some info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3
Agree that the 964 engine issues are way over blown and most do seem to be rebuilt due to leaks than actual wear or failures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3
Agree that the 964 engine issues are way over blown and most do seem to be rebuilt due to leaks than actual wear or failures.
09-16-2015, 03:24 PM
#10
I'm at 181K with a rebuild at 100K. I plan on doing another rebuild at around 250K-300K which won't be for a while. Car is running great, just have to stay ahead of any problems with maintenance.
09-16-2015, 04:25 PM
#11
Race Car
Engine longevity
Originally Posted by Andy Roe
I believe that the GT3 block actually has a 964 part number?! Some info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3
Agree that the 964 engine issues are way over blown and most do seem to be rebuilt due to leaks than actual wear or failures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3
Agree that the 964 engine issues are way over blown and most do seem to be rebuilt due to leaks than actual wear or failures.
09-17-2015, 02:25 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Why so many rebuilds
Here's a tread I started a while back. Received some good feedback that may help answer questions on engine longevity.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-rebuilds.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-rebuilds.html
09-17-2015, 10:39 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Carrera 3.2 engine is generally considered to be the most reliable of the aircooled engines so normal for others to fall short on mileage. 100k is about right for a 964 topend rebuild, some even earlier and a few have gone way past the 100k mark. Early cars (pre 91) would probably have had a reseal way before the 100k mark.
09-18-2015, 03:28 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Most of the engines I build for the 964 and 993 are usually from serious oil leaks that require tear down to completely adress. Seldom do we see failures of the engines, most all are elective builds, and some are just becaiuse someone wants more power.
09-18-2015, 04:38 PM
#15
Most haven't been rebuilt. Many on the forum, have had top end rebuilds, and some have had full rebuild down to the crank.
Most didn't need it. Some needed it, and some wouldn't run without it.
You've got a few things at play. Your average 911 owner isn't on rennlist. That's first. So you don't hear from the happy guy at home who just smirks when he sees the inevitable oil on the garage floor and drives away...he's not a forum guy, and most aren't.
Forum people tend to be two types. Fixers and modders. Both are way more likely to open the motor to fix something that doesn't really "need" to be fixed. Fixers will fix something that's broken or go after marginable hp gains. Modders will fix things that aren't broken, make things look cooler, and go after massive hp gains where they rarely get much at all, but have gone down a slippery slope getting there...if you hang with either group, you will begin to believe that much work is to be done, when really, in most cases, it would have been ok to let it go and drive the car...
I'll give an example. I bought my car w 58k on it. Engine tray was on. Traffic, and subsequent burnt valves, crap caked all over everything. Oil dripping from everywhere it could find a place to drip from. Car ran fine. Cold, it had zero compression. But there was a strange noise. A tick I didn't like. Felt slow. Wasn't perfect.
I spent 20k doing a top end rebuild. Slippery slope, replaced everything. Car since, runs fine. Feels slow (because it is), and no longer drips. Did I need the rebuild? Thought I did. Maybe I did. Glad I did. But it ran. And it isn't faster.
Cold, zero compression. Hot, had compression, just not perfect. I likely gained a few hp doing the top end build, but on the street, not being timed, you just aren't going to notice (in real terms).
Well maintained, these cars will literally go forever. Lack of maintenance, and they will need maintenance. No big deal.
If I were looking to buy one, however, since so many of us have rebuilt the motors, I'd be looking for a car with a good rebuild. More because most of the people driving up the prices don't really understand what they are looking at, and will pay a huge premium for lower miles, and a higher miles car with better maintenance will go cheaper and would usually be a better car, because it's owners made it that way.
Most didn't need it. Some needed it, and some wouldn't run without it.
You've got a few things at play. Your average 911 owner isn't on rennlist. That's first. So you don't hear from the happy guy at home who just smirks when he sees the inevitable oil on the garage floor and drives away...he's not a forum guy, and most aren't.
Forum people tend to be two types. Fixers and modders. Both are way more likely to open the motor to fix something that doesn't really "need" to be fixed. Fixers will fix something that's broken or go after marginable hp gains. Modders will fix things that aren't broken, make things look cooler, and go after massive hp gains where they rarely get much at all, but have gone down a slippery slope getting there...if you hang with either group, you will begin to believe that much work is to be done, when really, in most cases, it would have been ok to let it go and drive the car...
I'll give an example. I bought my car w 58k on it. Engine tray was on. Traffic, and subsequent burnt valves, crap caked all over everything. Oil dripping from everywhere it could find a place to drip from. Car ran fine. Cold, it had zero compression. But there was a strange noise. A tick I didn't like. Felt slow. Wasn't perfect.
I spent 20k doing a top end rebuild. Slippery slope, replaced everything. Car since, runs fine. Feels slow (because it is), and no longer drips. Did I need the rebuild? Thought I did. Maybe I did. Glad I did. But it ran. And it isn't faster.
Cold, zero compression. Hot, had compression, just not perfect. I likely gained a few hp doing the top end build, but on the street, not being timed, you just aren't going to notice (in real terms).
Well maintained, these cars will literally go forever. Lack of maintenance, and they will need maintenance. No big deal.
If I were looking to buy one, however, since so many of us have rebuilt the motors, I'd be looking for a car with a good rebuild. More because most of the people driving up the prices don't really understand what they are looking at, and will pay a huge premium for lower miles, and a higher miles car with better maintenance will go cheaper and would usually be a better car, because it's owners made it that way.
That's the best explanation I've heard that describes me. It didn't really need done but you know what in my mind it did..... Love the cars, love fixing and improving anything I can. Well said dude.