964 RS 3.8
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 364
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From: Pa.
Greetings, For whatever it is worth, The car also has a rear U.S. bumper. The RS 3.8 had the wide recess for the licence plate. If you look closely in the picture you will also see in the pass. side quarter window the white 5 MPH bumper decal that was installed on U.S. cars. The RS 3.8 did not have crash bumpers.
The ducts do look like RSR as I have a factory pair that mount the same way with a large screw and look the same. The front chin spoiler looks to be aftermarket as the RS 3.8 used two individual smaller "blades" on either side that were rivited and glued in place.
Could this car be a Turbo S with the RS 3.8 wing, Euro headlights, and centerlock hubs added?
Best,
Don
The ducts do look like RSR as I have a factory pair that mount the same way with a large screw and look the same. The front chin spoiler looks to be aftermarket as the RS 3.8 used two individual smaller "blades" on either side that were rivited and glued in place.
Could this car be a Turbo S with the RS 3.8 wing, Euro headlights, and centerlock hubs added?
Best,
Don
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,305
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From: Kingston, NY
An interesting article in Pano this month talks about the Turbo S LM-GT as well as the two other turbo cars built by Brumos and Champion. According to the article the Brumos car came from a 1993 Supercup car and therefore had a factory race chassis with a 3.6l single turbo engine. The Champion car came from a showroom stock street turbo and had a 3.3l single turbo. Neither car was a factory LM-GT turbo car and were "copies" of the one factory car produced.
If I were Rick and had purchased the spare #72 body panels I too would have finished the car with the #72 livery. It is simply an awesome looking car, and Rick has outfitted it with an 850+hp single turbo and dominates PCA GT-1R class here on the east coast with it. Kudos for him!!!
If I were Rick and had purchased the spare #72 body panels I too would have finished the car with the #72 livery. It is simply an awesome looking car, and Rick has outfitted it with an 850+hp single turbo and dominates PCA GT-1R class here on the east coast with it. Kudos for him!!!
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Florida
Geoffrey:
I finally received my Pano today and read the article, although I must agree with the person that wrote it, I 'm sure he did his research, I found one thing he put in the article to be wrong. The Champion car, that I owned, had a PMNA 3.6ltr upright fan motor. The motor was not like the one pictured in the article.
I had several conversations with Alwin Springer and Eric Bloss and was told the Champion car, had proprietary PMNA items in the car as well as a "one off" 962 type motor. I was also told by PMNA, that the Champion car spend time at Andial and PMNA and wasn't just a creation of Champion Porsche.
As far as Rick copying the paint scheme, I guess I'm just old fashion. I believe in replica cars, I raced a copy of a 934 for a few years. I just don't think making an exact copy where people might think that is the original is really my "cup of tea". Just me I guess...
I finally received my Pano today and read the article, although I must agree with the person that wrote it, I 'm sure he did his research, I found one thing he put in the article to be wrong. The Champion car, that I owned, had a PMNA 3.6ltr upright fan motor. The motor was not like the one pictured in the article.
I had several conversations with Alwin Springer and Eric Bloss and was told the Champion car, had proprietary PMNA items in the car as well as a "one off" 962 type motor. I was also told by PMNA, that the Champion car spend time at Andial and PMNA and wasn't just a creation of Champion Porsche.
As far as Rick copying the paint scheme, I guess I'm just old fashion. I believe in replica cars, I raced a copy of a 934 for a few years. I just don't think making an exact copy where people might think that is the original is really my "cup of tea". Just me I guess...
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From: Parafield Gardens
This is why threads like this are so valuable and should be encouraged. Many conversions and replicas all around the world are past off as the real thing. One that springs tomind is a guy in Florida selling a 964 Turbo cab which he claimed was one of 105 built by the factory. Or a 1973 911RS here in Switzerland which was a converted (not very well) late production run 911RS Touring and again here in Switzerland a 964 Turbo S which tunred out to be a 964 Turbo with an aftermarket 355 HP (copied version of the genuine Porsche kit) enigne kit. Oh and not forgetting the 959 cab with the 3.2 L motor.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
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From: Westminster, Co
Adrian, you really seem to be the person to go to with this. What about 1993 Carrera Cup cars, none seem to be listed in the literature I've read so far it was all about RS and RSRs.
Thanks
Thanks
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From: Parafield Gardens
The 93 Cup was the same as the 92 spec but interest at Porsche motorsports had already turned to the 993. They did produce some out of the factory versions. I cannot remember the number off the top of my head.
They have their own VINs. However a large number of 92 spec cups were converted for use in 93. Porsche themselves have very little on the 93 series. More is available for the last of the 964 cups produced for the 94 season but not much. I would have to check but if I remember correctly after the Footwork team went bust there were no more factory team 964s. The Turbo LM GT only raced in factory colours in 1993 which was the 30th anniversary of the 911. I am pretty sure that the 1994 season had no factory 964 teams because they were using the 993.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
They have their own VINs. However a large number of 92 spec cups were converted for use in 93. Porsche themselves have very little on the 93 series. More is available for the last of the 964 cups produced for the 94 season but not much. I would have to check but if I remember correctly after the Footwork team went bust there were no more factory team 964s. The Turbo LM GT only raced in factory colours in 1993 which was the 30th anniversary of the 911. I am pretty sure that the 1994 season had no factory 964 teams because they were using the 993.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
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Burning Brakes
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From: www.cupcar.net
According to my info there were 15 Carrera Cup cars produced in model year 1993. While the 1993 Porsche Pirelli Supercup series used the "new" 993 Cup, the national Carrera Cup series continued to use the 964 in 1994.
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From: Parafield Gardens
Again when you say national I assume you mean Germany. There were Porsche Cup (of one kind or another) series in all major racing nations of Europe as there still are today. The Italian and French competition were particularily strong in these days. A large number of the Porsche motorsports products went to these nations. 15 new Cups in 1993 means that many more had to be have been used from 1992 in these countries as well as being converted from other models. Mind you if you think this gets complicated wait until to see what happened to the 993s.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
Burning Brakes
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From: www.cupcar.net
I was talking about what I said, the National Carrera Cup series, meaning Germany, France and Japen. These are the only series in 1994 that were branded as "Porsche Carrera Cup". Other Cup series would not be branded with these trademarks.
I would love to know specifically what other Porsche "CUP" series you are always referring to where the model "Porsche 911 Carrera 2 Cup" would be _featured_?
I would love to know specifically what other Porsche "CUP" series you are always referring to where the model "Porsche 911 Carrera 2 Cup" would be _featured_?
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From: Parafield Gardens
There were numerous series including the Porsche Pirelli Cup, there was a Yokohama sponsored Cup series and if I remember correctly a Kumho series as well.
There were many different level competitions throughout Europe which used the Cup specifications 964. Some still exist today using the GT-3. Many of them being a grass roots levels do not make it into the "Big" books.
I have mentioned this before but there is still a number of 964 Carrera Cup running in the Vorarlberg Porsche Pirelli Cup championship. They allow Cups from each of the different specifications in their own class to race against each other. 964s, 993 and 996s. There are other similar competitions in France, Germany and Italy. I know a guy who will rent you a 964 Cup for the weekend. There is a driving school in France where you can actually learn to drive the 964 Carrera Cup.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
There were many different level competitions throughout Europe which used the Cup specifications 964. Some still exist today using the GT-3. Many of them being a grass roots levels do not make it into the "Big" books.
I have mentioned this before but there is still a number of 964 Carrera Cup running in the Vorarlberg Porsche Pirelli Cup championship. They allow Cups from each of the different specifications in their own class to race against each other. 964s, 993 and 996s. There are other similar competitions in France, Germany and Italy. I know a guy who will rent you a 964 Cup for the weekend. There is a driving school in France where you can actually learn to drive the 964 Carrera Cup.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Pa.
Greetings,
I do not want to confuse this but it is all in the name. In 1993 there was one significant change in the 964 Cup racer though: the move from 17" to 18" wheels. The Cup car became the Supercup car and the series where they raced went from Carrera Cup to the Supercup series. There was also the addition in the 93 version that included another door bar on the rollcage that now formed an "X" where in 92 there was just a diagonal.
While I was not at these races, the Porsche Sport yearbooks show only 964 cars in 93 and a mix depending on the series ( 993s in the Supercup) in 94 to all 993s in 95.
The Carrera Cup and then Supercup were run in Germany, France and Japan. There were other races or "Cups" in Italy and other parts of Europe. They just used a different name. There was a Carrera RS Cup and even a 968 CS Cup run.
Best,
Don
I do not want to confuse this but it is all in the name. In 1993 there was one significant change in the 964 Cup racer though: the move from 17" to 18" wheels. The Cup car became the Supercup car and the series where they raced went from Carrera Cup to the Supercup series. There was also the addition in the 93 version that included another door bar on the rollcage that now formed an "X" where in 92 there was just a diagonal.
While I was not at these races, the Porsche Sport yearbooks show only 964 cars in 93 and a mix depending on the series ( 993s in the Supercup) in 94 to all 993s in 95.
The Carrera Cup and then Supercup were run in Germany, France and Japan. There were other races or "Cups" in Italy and other parts of Europe. They just used a different name. There was a Carrera RS Cup and even a 968 CS Cup run.
Best,
Don
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5
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From: Long Island
Hey Don, John, Jim and Adrian:
I just wandered onto the forums and read this very fascinating and friendly (john) thread.
If anyone is interested I still have my 1993 964 3.8 RSR forsale. It is completely factory original. Feel free to check out my site for more details. If I don't sell it in a month or 2 you'll find me at Sebring in February and Daytona in April for the Rennsport Reunion.
John
http://members.rennlist.com/zero9nine/
I just wandered onto the forums and read this very fascinating and friendly (john) thread.
If anyone is interested I still have my 1993 964 3.8 RSR forsale. It is completely factory original. Feel free to check out my site for more details. If I don't sell it in a month or 2 you'll find me at Sebring in February and Daytona in April for the Rennsport Reunion.
John
http://members.rennlist.com/zero9nine/
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 304
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From: Surrey, UK
While we're on the subject, where can I find out the first three years of my '91 Cup Cars history? Have drawn a blank with the archive at Stuttgart; well, they didn't reply to my fax.
I don't have the original Wagenpass, but I have managed to peice together a loose history from 1994 to date. But some results, particularly in the Carrera Cup, would be nice.
NB The TAG Heuer car was driven by Hakinen at Monaco and Hungaroring in '93 where he gained pole AND won both races -before Monaco, he had never driven a Porsche 911 before.............the refurbished car is for sale in the US at UK£80,000 equivalent.
Mel
PS The car tested by Phil (AFAIK unbeknown to the then owner....) has been bought by H&S and taken back to Germany.......
I don't have the original Wagenpass, but I have managed to peice together a loose history from 1994 to date. But some results, particularly in the Carrera Cup, would be nice.
NB The TAG Heuer car was driven by Hakinen at Monaco and Hungaroring in '93 where he gained pole AND won both races -before Monaco, he had never driven a Porsche 911 before.............the refurbished car is for sale in the US at UK£80,000 equivalent.
Mel
PS The car tested by Phil (AFAIK unbeknown to the then owner....) has been bought by H&S and taken back to Germany.......