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So Loren your valuable contribution to this thread is a link to a 928 only product?
Oh look I can do that too:
http://www.augmentautomotive.co.uk/augtronic-porsche-944-ecu/
Better system too in my book, but just about as relevant given its 944 only.
Aside from this smokescreen your thesis is that rom tunes are a dangerous scam and aren't "proper tuning". Many disagree with you.
What's odd is that you count yourself qualified to abuse any noob dumb enough to buy into the rom tune scam, but you don't appear qualified to question in anyway the highly dubious claims Stan, viking911 and I posted about a fictional L90 chip.
So, no comments about your fellow UKer who provides real products that truly benefit
Rennlist users not like the typical hyperbole products posted in this thread?
Yes, I have a comment. Direct from their website:
"The JDSPorsche SharkTuners for the Porsche 928 (MY 1987 onwards) allows the optimisation of the fuel and ignition maps to ensure optimum performance from the engine. This is particularly important if the engine has been modified in any way e.g. change of exhaust system, supercharger."
A. So why is that the "performance" chips described in this thread require
increasing the octane level beyond what Porsche specified? Could it be that
the so-called tuning, whereby the ignition timing is 'pushed', results in
pinging/detonation, and less margin of engine safety, causing the knock
control system to retard the timing offsetting any potential advantage
of the 'pushed' tuning?
B. And there's this post which few if any understood as it relates to tuning the stock 964
engine as described in this thread:
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
You are going to discover rather quickly that the dual-distributor 964 engine is NOT knock-limited using whatever the UK equivalent is of USA 93 octane (R+M)/2. Htting MBT does not require anything higher until the intake air-temperature in the dynamometer cell reaches the upper 90's.
The post states that the twin plugged 964 engine is not knock limited in its ability
to achieve MBT. As such, even a small increase in additional octane yields little benefit.
Thereby marginalizing any additional benefit from increases in octane levels, i.e. the stock
964 engine is basically near/at it's MBT for Porsche's designed octane level. Given this,
additional 'pushed' timing with higher octane levels results in no real MBT gains.
The air temp input can decrease the timing further reducing engine torque, but this
effect can not be overcome by additional octane levels because its not in the knock system
control loop. To overcome this, the air temp input would need to be modified, e.g. electronically
or not using actual engine air, but this results in the engine running nearer to detonation,
i.e. reduced margin of engine safety.
A. So why is that the "performance" chips described in this thread require
increasing the octane level beyond what Porsche specified? Could it be that
the so-called tuning, whereby the ignition timing is 'pushed', results in
pinging/detonation, and less margin of engine safety, causing the knock
control system to retard the timing offsetting any potential advantage
of the 'pushed' tuning?
B. And there's this post which few if any understood as it relates to tuning the stock 964
engine as described in this thread:
The post states that the twin plugged 964 engine is not knock limited in its ability
to achieve MBT. As such, even a small increase in additional octane yields little benefit.
Thereby marginalizing any additional benefit from increases in octane levels, i.e. the stock
964 engine is basically near/at it's MBT for Porsche's designed octane level. Given this,
additional 'pushed' timing with higher octane levels results in no real MBT gains.
The air temp input can decrease the timing further reducing engine torque, but this
effect can not be overcome by additional octane levels because its not in the knock system
control loop. To overcome this, the air temp input would needed to be modified, e.g. electronically
or not using actual engine air, but this results in the engine running nearer to detonation,
i.e. reduced margin of engine safety.
Stop trolling. The only time you didn't call 'hyperbole' is the only time there actually was some - the imaginary WGBE L9O Racing Chip. For your info WGBE stands for, Weapons Grade Bell End.
I didn't read this whole thread, but I find it interesting that I see links to this thread from elsewhere, so I'd like to add clarity to the myth this whole story seems to be.
The car in question at the beginning of this thread is in fact not a 3.2 but a 3.5 conversion that in mid 2012, Loren was given an opportunity to tune for POC's GT classes. GT class racing is there cars are classified according to their power to weight ratio, so the trick to having a technical advantage is to take a big motor, and detune down some of the HP right at the peak of the curve, so you can keep yourself in a class that a lesser displacement motor would normally be in, and have the advantage of huge midrange torque and hp extension past the typical 6100 rpm peak, allowing the car to pull like a locomotive no matter what rpm you are in. Loren worked of an old Autothority chip (innovative BTW ) and attempted to manipulate it's maps to tune that motor and his results are shown in his dyno charts on the first page. He couldn't figure out why the power and timing was shifting all over the place so in the last desperate attempt, put a fixed resistor where the air intake temp sensor would normally be in the air flow meter, disabling fuel and anti-knock ignition trim compensation based on intake temps. It was a nice attempt but not particularly impressive.
Unfortunately for the car owner, two months and not even two track events later, the motor completely blew up and no one involved would take responsibility. Needless to say the owner was pissed. That car is Blair Boyce's below:
Subsequently the motor was rebuilt and per Mr. Boyce's instructions, insisted only I be brought in and allowed to retune the motor. I removed the mickey mouse resistor and started fresh with a new program, not a redo of someone else's. The initial result of this motor with no detuning resulted in about 257-262 hp at the rear wheels on a Dynojet, same type of dyno Loren used. To fit the car into GT4 class, yet keep the car's weight as light as possible, we calculated a maximum of 230 rwhp would keep the car right in class without adding too much weight, the results of which you see below. The blue curve is the HP of the motor unrestricted, the red curve is the engine detune anywhere it goes above the targe 230 hp, but keeping it just right below. Although one might think running the motor at 257 hp would make for a faster car, it would also require the addition of 13lbs/hp or an additional 377 lbs to the car to keep in class, which would make the car much slower, not only on acceleration, but braking and cornering. Light is fast!
Compare that to what we did also with a 3.2 that was detuned to a max of 200-202 HP (red dyno curve below), to allow it to run in GT5 class. This 3.2 motor unrestricted makes about 227 HP which would normally put it into the GT4 class above, but as you can see, the area under the curve of the detuned 3.5 is much greater than the unrestricted 3.2, even though both are right at around 230 hp. Compare the HP at 5000 and 7000 rpm of both the 3.2 and 3.5 and you can see how the 3.5 has the power advantage.
Since then Blair Boyce motor has been bulletproof and has rocked to being POC's GT4 champion, along with Jerry Hoffman's GT5 car above, both class champions for the past two years in a row, 2013 and 2014. Congrats to Blair and Jerry best of luck for the upcoming season!
Last edited by BLACK-BETTY; 02-06-2015 at 07:10 AM.
So now that more "performance tuning" facts for a stock engine become apparent to the naive,
the personal attacks begin. Typical!
Furthermore, the previous post linked to a post that contains false and misleading information, and as such
the linked to post is libelous in the implication that I was responsible for an engine being damaged.
So now that more "performance tuning" facts for a stock engine become apparent to the naive,
the personal attacks begin. Typical!
No these aren't attacks on your person, only on the stupid things you say.
Some of your facts are accurate some are not but your ability to form a cogent and coherent argument that synthesises those facts into a valid conclusion are consistently lacking, demonstrably by both logic and more importantly empirical evidence.
Is that Steve W post quoted above correct Loren? The "resistor mod" , there's a well trodden path to tuning success.
We offered it to you on a plate to actually demonstrate your expertise and challenge some pretty tenuous tuning claims and instead you just banged the same old drum.
Tuning like most other engineering problems is always a case of balancing objectives; economy, consistent behaviour under varying conditions, response, peak performance etc. For example Porsche themselves ran higher timing on 964s where the balance in the calibration nudged fractionally more towards performance. Classic scam tuning move right there, someone call the internet cops!
Sorry Loren, maybe my previous post was not clear. I quoted a part of the website you linked because they come across like any other tuner you blame for spreading 'hyperbole'...
Interesting to see a post about a engine Loren actually caused to blow up, even though he can't produce anything to back up the safety margin claims he slams other 'tuners' for. Is that irony or what?!!
Initially it's hilarious reading his silly meaningless trolling inputs, but then you start realizing he has serious problems and need help. Loran is not the only little miserable clown trolling round forums, generally best course of action is just ignoring them and they disappear back under the little stone they crawled out from.
Initially it's hilarious reading his silly meaningless trolling inputs, but then you start realizing he has serious problems and need help. Loran is not the only little miserable clown trolling round forums, generally best course of action is just ignoring them and they disappear back under the little stone they crawled out from.
So what have you contributed to Rennlist in your 5 months and 38 posts, obviously nothing really,
other than your self-indulgence?
Most likely your ability to comprehend anything relating to a Porsche on Rennlist will be limited
to discussing the speed of your wiper motor. Do you even know where the 964 DME ECM is located
in the vehicle?
Having a problem reading and spelling my name? Failed high school auto shop like others
besides your reading & spelling classes in grammar school?
By the way, did you look in the mirror when you did your only post in this thread?
Did the mirror say TROLL?
Most likely your ability to comprehend anything relating to a Porsche on Rennlist will be limited
to discussing the speed of your wiper motor. Do you even know where the 964 DME ECM is located
in the vehicle?
Having a problem reading and spelling my name? Failed high school auto shop like others
besides your reading & spelling classes in grammar school?
By the way, did you look in the mirror when you did your only post in this thread?
Did the mirror say TROLL?
No need (or skills for that matter) to fiddle with my 6 Porsches, soon 7 when my 991RS arrive. I get professionals to sort out whatever I like done to them. RL have a lot of interesting info and wealth of knowledge that is exciting to follow. Thats what I use RL for, you on the other hand just troll around trying to upset as many as you can. And judging by how many fellow RL'er dislikes you, so far you are doing a great job.
Reality is that you are a waste of space and probably just a little miserable clown that drives a 20 year old Corolla to your work in McDonalds.
02-05-2015, 02:31 PM
) and attempted to manipulate it's maps to tune that motor and his results are shown in his dyno charts on the first page. He couldn't figure out why the power and timing was shifting all over the place so in the last desperate attempt, put a fixed resistor where the air intake temp sensor would normally be in the air flow meter, disabling fuel and anti-knock ignition trim compensation based on intake temps. It was a nice attempt but not particularly impressive. 
and no one involved would take responsibility. Needless to say the owner was pissed. That car is Blair Boyce's below:
