RWB...the real deal
01-07-2015, 09:51 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
The GT2 is a perfect example of form follows function: it was a homologation platform for the GT2 race car. Need a 450hp turbo? Need more room and intake air, gotta have a bigger tail base, that kind of power in a 2wd car, better have some rear downforce and balanced aero on the nose. Max FIA class rubber? We're going to need some flares to cover it up...
Way different than bolting all the look stuff on a car with 250 hp....
Way different than bolting all the look stuff on a car with 250 hp....
01-07-2015, 01:53 PM
#32
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Hi J Richard,
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
01-07-2015, 05:18 PM
#33
Yup
What he said.... in this and his prior post. Well said....
Hi J Richard,
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
01-07-2015, 05:58 PM
#34
Track Day
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Thanks, mickfluff.
And really, every car kept on the road (in whatever guise) is one less car that ends up like this... Yikes!
For more photos, see: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...rd/?refer=news
And really, every car kept on the road (in whatever guise) is one less car that ends up like this... Yikes!
For more photos, see: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...rd/?refer=news
01-07-2015, 10:47 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Don't misunderstand, I'm only responding to the form follows function discussion. I have had and do have a number of Pcars; very few remain untouched, and those that don't I eventually sell as the are either too precious or too dull to tinker with. I'm all for doing what you want with your own ride. But it's hard to argue form follows function on a lot of tuner show cars as it just doesn't hold water...
Here's one getting "tweeked" right now...was thinking about going wide body but until you break 300hp it's actually slower...
Here's one getting "tweeked" right now...was thinking about going wide body but until you break 300hp it's actually slower...
01-08-2015, 12:32 AM
#36
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Thanks for that. Yes, the narrow bodies definitely have their merits. BTW, one of my favorite cars, the Ruf Yellow Bird, had a 500hp motor in a narrow body, specifically because of the aerodynamics!
Seeing that you're a big RS America fan, how about making an ultra light-weight RS with a bumped up motor? I suspect that you're well along your way in that direction...
Seeing that you're a big RS America fan, how about making an ultra light-weight RS with a bumped up motor? I suspect that you're well along your way in that direction...
01-08-2015, 01:03 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Hi J Richard,
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
Yes, I agree it's way different. However, it's clear that RWB is riffing on such purpose built factory cars, in the same way that others may riff on past models too (e.g., the S, R, ST, RS, etc.)
Are you suggesting, for example, that people who don't track their cars should never upgrade their suspensions or wheels? Are you suggesting that Porsche kill their Exclusive program for all things cosmetic? And BTW, have you seen some of the cars that come out of that program? It's not always form follows function, that's for sure.
Again, I'm not an RWB fan. In fact, I generally prefer to keep my P-cars as close to stock as possible. I'm quite sure, for example, that Porsches's engineering experience, expertise and funding far exceeds anything that I can bring to the table with one of my cars (and it's my past experience working in the auto industry that tells me that).
Given all the criticism that pops up in the Porsche world for things like RWB, or even Magnus Walker, people seem to forget why the automotive industry is what it is. People are incredibly passionate about their cars, and a key part of that passion is the experience associated with making a car one's own (fuzzy dice and all). And, I'll admit, part of that passion is also knocking other people's efforts on web forums, hopefully with good humor. ;-)
So, to each his own. While I wouldn't pay $100k for an RWB car, $200k for a Magnus Walker 911 or $500k for a Singer, I'm not going to make a point of knocking the guys that do. After all, it's their money that's being spent, not mine.
I don't even think there is anything wrong with someone putting up the money to build one....taking a lot of risk and then turning it for a profit. That is what our whole economy is based on...opportunists!
01-08-2015, 10:41 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
If you didn't know your Porsche model history, you might think it was a RWB car...
Like it or not, RWB is not going to stop...
01-09-2015, 03:36 AM
#40
GT3 player par excellence
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all cars are good
JDM
DTM
american muscle
RWB
Ruf
Liberty walk
they all have their culture
is it form follow function, well it depends on your definition of form and function.
i think a lot of animosity of RWB stems from the representation of the brand, of the importers/distributor (for lack of a better term) and the gross marketization (is that a word??) of the brand.... see the other beat to hell RWB thread.
JDM
DTM
american muscle
RWB
Ruf
Liberty walk
they all have their culture
is it form follow function, well it depends on your definition of form and function.
i think a lot of animosity of RWB stems from the representation of the brand, of the importers/distributor (for lack of a better term) and the gross marketization (is that a word??) of the brand.... see the other beat to hell RWB thread.
01-09-2015, 12:23 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
RWB is not unlike what the 356 Outlaw and R-Gruppe guys do....to each his own.
Though I think RWB is really playing with the "PAR" (Performance Appearance Ratio) of their cars.
Though I think RWB is really playing with the "PAR" (Performance Appearance Ratio) of their cars.
01-09-2015, 12:28 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Personally I like the look of pretty much all of the RWBs, but you need to have the performance to back it up. Don't have show before you have go. Been a believer in that philosophy since my RX-7 days. The JDM is probably the worst offender in the "all show no go" game.
01-09-2015, 02:09 PM
#43
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Mooty, you make a great point. Perhaps, RWB doesn't have the greatest brand ambassadors here in the US... As for the gross commercialization of a brand, have you ever been to a SEMA show? Unfortunately, commercialization and cars go hand in hand, all the more so, in the sports car world.
Fortunately, Porsche has been one of the few automotive companies that have been quite conservative in their marketing. But even there, you see the company dipping its toes in new waters in order to expand their product portfolio and increase their profitability, whether its in new market segments (i.e., SUVs, crossovers and sedans), or in new territories like China, which have become huge markets for them.
That being said, if some posters are taking liberties on this or any other forum, I'm all for the respective site administrators taking action. But, whether it's the RWB topic or for that matter anything else, the spectacle of haters being haters does get a bit tiring to see. But then again, such is life on any Internet forum...
I fully agree that all show and no go is pretty pointless, but to return to Mooty's point, the form follow function argument is definitely all relative. For example, when I first got married, my wife was convinced that all anyone needed for a car was something like a Golf or Prius. In her eyes, a car was just for transportation, and a Porsche was well, all show. Well, it only took me ten short years to convince her otherwise, but yes the form follows function argument can lead to many different conclusions.
Fortunately, Porsche has been one of the few automotive companies that have been quite conservative in their marketing. But even there, you see the company dipping its toes in new waters in order to expand their product portfolio and increase their profitability, whether its in new market segments (i.e., SUVs, crossovers and sedans), or in new territories like China, which have become huge markets for them.
That being said, if some posters are taking liberties on this or any other forum, I'm all for the respective site administrators taking action. But, whether it's the RWB topic or for that matter anything else, the spectacle of haters being haters does get a bit tiring to see. But then again, such is life on any Internet forum...
I fully agree that all show and no go is pretty pointless, but to return to Mooty's point, the form follow function argument is definitely all relative. For example, when I first got married, my wife was convinced that all anyone needed for a car was something like a Golf or Prius. In her eyes, a car was just for transportation, and a Porsche was well, all show. Well, it only took me ten short years to convince her otherwise, but yes the form follows function argument can lead to many different conclusions.
01-09-2015, 04:52 PM
#44
GT3 player par excellence
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Mooty, you make a great point. Perhaps, RWB doesn't have the greatest brand ambassadors here in the US... As for the gross commercialization of a brand, have you ever been to a SEMA show? Unfortunately, commercialization and cars go hand in hand, all the more so, in the sports car world.
Fortunately, Porsche has been one of the few automotive companies that have been quite conservative in their marketing. But even there, you see the company dipping its toes in new waters in order to expand their product portfolio and increase their profitability, whether its in new market segments (i.e., SUVs, crossovers and sedans), or in new territories like China, which have become huge markets for them.
That being said, if some posters are taking liberties on this or any other forum, I'm all for the respective site administrators taking action. But, whether it's the RWB topic or for that matter anything else, the spectacle of haters being haters does get a bit tiring to see. But then again, such is life on any Internet forum...
I fully agree that all show and no go is pretty pointless, but to return to Mooty's point, the form follow function argument is definitely all relative. For example, when I first got married, my wife was convinced that all anyone needed for a car was something like a Golf or Prius. In her eyes, a car was just for transportation, and a Porsche was well, all show. Well, it only took me ten short years to convince her otherwise, but yes the form follows function argument can lead to many different conclusions.
Fortunately, Porsche has been one of the few automotive companies that have been quite conservative in their marketing. But even there, you see the company dipping its toes in new waters in order to expand their product portfolio and increase their profitability, whether its in new market segments (i.e., SUVs, crossovers and sedans), or in new territories like China, which have become huge markets for them.
That being said, if some posters are taking liberties on this or any other forum, I'm all for the respective site administrators taking action. But, whether it's the RWB topic or for that matter anything else, the spectacle of haters being haters does get a bit tiring to see. But then again, such is life on any Internet forum...
I fully agree that all show and no go is pretty pointless, but to return to Mooty's point, the form follow function argument is definitely all relative. For example, when I first got married, my wife was convinced that all anyone needed for a car was something like a Golf or Prius. In her eyes, a car was just for transportation, and a Porsche was well, all show. Well, it only took me ten short years to convince her otherwise, but yes the form follows function argument can lead to many different conclusions.
i think we all know what i am talking about here
