View Poll Results: What are you?
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll
964 | Go Cars Vs Show Cars
10-02-2014, 12:56 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Preference is Performance, if I was forced to choose of one of the two.
I also like RS / Cup standard cars a lot, given the breadth of options and Special Wishes dept. offered for the RS.
I also like a wheel / stance optimisation car as well - (I have 8 spare sets of different wheels for the 964 - obsession! some for stance and some for go!)
It is great that we have so much diversity on one marque and its 964 derivative - 'There is no bad 964'
I also like RS / Cup standard cars a lot, given the breadth of options and Special Wishes dept. offered for the RS.
I also like a wheel / stance optimisation car as well - (I have 8 spare sets of different wheels for the 964 - obsession! some for stance and some for go!)
It is great that we have so much diversity on one marque and its 964 derivative - 'There is no bad 964'
10-02-2014, 02:47 PM
#19
Addict
Rennlist Member
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10-02-2014, 04:24 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
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I see merit in both points of view. I would like to know how many performance guys actually use the performance vs how many use the thousands upon thousands of $$$ spent in an expensive exercise in penile comparisons.
I know many do track/compete their cars - and fair cop to you. However, I would also contend the vast majority are "show cars" of a different type under the guise of performance. Its no different from the stance world - its all posing! Now, there's nothing wrong with that. I too like to spend my money on "performance" but to be completely honest it makes little difference in how the car performs for typical street usage. What it does do is make me feel good and part of a scene. I actually spend far more money on preventative maintenance and keeping the car on the road. If I wanted a true performance car I wouldn't have bought a 964
There is a lot of hating going on about stance. Their expression is simply different and we should embrace the creativity and hard work that goes into making those cars what they are.
I'm new to the Porsche world and have found a level of snobbery and entitlement that exists in this community that I haven't seen in others. Personally I find it refreshing to have a point of difference. I've spent time in other forums and found generally they are welcoming and accepting of difference
I love pcars. Stance guys have the right to slam their cars as do the performance guys to opine about them. Please just don't let this discussion devolve and degenerate to the point where the only loser is our community
Peace
I know many do track/compete their cars - and fair cop to you. However, I would also contend the vast majority are "show cars" of a different type under the guise of performance. Its no different from the stance world - its all posing! Now, there's nothing wrong with that. I too like to spend my money on "performance" but to be completely honest it makes little difference in how the car performs for typical street usage. What it does do is make me feel good and part of a scene. I actually spend far more money on preventative maintenance and keeping the car on the road. If I wanted a true performance car I wouldn't have bought a 964
There is a lot of hating going on about stance. Their expression is simply different and we should embrace the creativity and hard work that goes into making those cars what they are.
I'm new to the Porsche world and have found a level of snobbery and entitlement that exists in this community that I haven't seen in others. Personally I find it refreshing to have a point of difference. I've spent time in other forums and found generally they are welcoming and accepting of difference
I love pcars. Stance guys have the right to slam their cars as do the performance guys to opine about them. Please just don't let this discussion devolve and degenerate to the point where the only loser is our community
Peace
10-02-2014, 05:34 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
10-02-2014, 06:00 PM
#24
^^^PCARPLAYER wins best post so far^^^
I look at the gorgous Black Betty and immediately think show not go.
I guess what swings me to show is the amount of money, time and effort spent on pretty wheels, detailing, filming it and now the impending sumptous interior work. Maybe if I was reading about the fitting of a close ratio 6-speed box with LSD, biased pedal box or lightweight parts I'd probably be thinking go.
I'm sure Frank would disagree and hope he doesn't care how I view his car.
Maybe I'm alone in thinking show, maybe I'm not but to be honest it shouldn't really matter as both show and go guys are modifying their cars for their own pleasure and to stand out from the crowd.
This should be celebrated not a reason for ridicule just because its not what you would do with your car.
Just for the record I voted I'm a 'Go Guy' but there should be another choice on the poll 'Go Guy Without Insecurites and Happy in his Go Skin'
I look at the gorgous Black Betty and immediately think show not go.
I guess what swings me to show is the amount of money, time and effort spent on pretty wheels, detailing, filming it and now the impending sumptous interior work. Maybe if I was reading about the fitting of a close ratio 6-speed box with LSD, biased pedal box or lightweight parts I'd probably be thinking go.
I'm sure Frank would disagree and hope he doesn't care how I view his car.
Maybe I'm alone in thinking show, maybe I'm not but to be honest it shouldn't really matter as both show and go guys are modifying their cars for their own pleasure and to stand out from the crowd.
This should be celebrated not a reason for ridicule just because its not what you would do with your car.
Just for the record I voted I'm a 'Go Guy' but there should be another choice on the poll 'Go Guy Without Insecurites and Happy in his Go Skin'
10-02-2014, 06:11 PM
#25
I see merit in both points of view. I would like to know how many performance guys actually use the performance vs how many use the thousands upon thousands of $$$ spent in an expensive exercise in penile comparisons.
I know many do track/compete their cars - and fair cop to you. However, I would also contend the vast majority are "show cars" of a different type under the guise of performance. Its no different from the stance world - its all posing! Now, there's nothing wrong with that. I too like to spend my money on "performance" but to be completely honest it makes little difference in how the car performs for typical street usage. What it does do is make me feel good and part of a scene. I actually spend far more money on preventative maintenance and keeping the car on the road. If I wanted a true performance car I wouldn't have bought a 964
There is a lot of hating going on about stance. Their expression is simply different and we should embrace the creativity and hard work that goes into making those cars what they are.
I'm new to the Porsche world and have found a level of snobbery and entitlement that exists in this community that I haven't seen in others. Personally I find it refreshing to have a point of difference. I've spent time in other forums and found generally they are welcoming and accepting of difference
I love pcars. Stance guys have the right to slam their cars as do the performance guys to opine about them. Please just don't let this discussion devolve and degenerate to the point where the only loser is our community
Peace
I know many do track/compete their cars - and fair cop to you. However, I would also contend the vast majority are "show cars" of a different type under the guise of performance. Its no different from the stance world - its all posing! Now, there's nothing wrong with that. I too like to spend my money on "performance" but to be completely honest it makes little difference in how the car performs for typical street usage. What it does do is make me feel good and part of a scene. I actually spend far more money on preventative maintenance and keeping the car on the road. If I wanted a true performance car I wouldn't have bought a 964
There is a lot of hating going on about stance. Their expression is simply different and we should embrace the creativity and hard work that goes into making those cars what they are.
I'm new to the Porsche world and have found a level of snobbery and entitlement that exists in this community that I haven't seen in others. Personally I find it refreshing to have a point of difference. I've spent time in other forums and found generally they are welcoming and accepting of difference
I love pcars. Stance guys have the right to slam their cars as do the performance guys to opine about them. Please just don't let this discussion devolve and degenerate to the point where the only loser is our community
Peace
We all know very well there is no 964 rule book to follow, and nobody should ever lecture upon the "right" way to modify a car. The possibilities are endless, and no one person is the same in their ideal 964.
Performance or stance, we're all here for the same genuine interest.
Amirite?
10-02-2014, 06:23 PM
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
This thread was just about poking a bit of fun. If anything it has finally succeeded in subduing the divide: Not once has anyone lost their cool, it's been nothing but 'coherent' thoughts from all sides. I hope the stance guys have a sense of humour
Cheers to Farkas & Vegas993 - who have both personally helped me with wheel fitment issues.
10-02-2014, 06:41 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
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This thread was just about poking a bit of fun. If anything it has finally succeeded in subduing the divide: Not once has anyone lost their cool, it's been nothing but coherent thoughts from all sides. I hope the stance guys have a sense of humour
Cheers to Farkas & Vegas993 - who have both personally helped me with wheel fitment issues.
Cheers to Farkas & Vegas993 - who have both personally helped me with wheel fitment issues.
10-02-2014, 11:33 PM
#28
Instructor
I dont usually bother with these types of topics, especially ones started by black betty in particular but I felt compelled to throw my hat in the ring here. Some of the replies are really spot on, Ken d's words as well as a few others hit home for me.
Frank/black betty its like you want to want to stir the pot and get a dog pile going any time the subject comes up, hence this topic as well i suppose. It seems to me that you are lashing out at people who arent even rennlist members. I think what you mean is that its on the tip of your tongue. I appreciate the fact that this forum is on average an older and more refined user and in a nutshell a vastly different demographic compared to a bunch of young guys modding vw golfs. I can ever so slightly identify with you on this subject as I dont like the young guys with 964's that managed to slip into these cars at the last affordable minute. Im very glad that 964's are finally getting the attention they have always deserved, I wish it would have happened sooner to help keep the bone heads out. In my opinion a few of those guys are bringing the entire 964 scene down with their antics, and making us all look bad. I'll provide an example but theres a few things I'd like to touch on first.
First off I noticed one of your very first example pics was Brians mint green car. Any reason you didnt choose the pictures of him driving it at the ring? or was it just not convenient for your goals for this topic.
Second this pic is photoshopped to be that low:
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...0jao1_1280.jpg
so thats not real
The rest of your provided example pics just come off to me as "look how much better at 964's my crew is than these guys". Ok so you get out and drive with your mates.... so do a lot of us. I've had a blast getting up at the crack of dawn to go to cars and coffee irvine with my brother and 2 close friends Brian (todehandler) and Andy (financd964) as well as other car related events here in socal. If you think you had more fun than we did thats fine, but what a childish way to try and hammer your point home yet another time to a bunch of people who could really care less. In all honesty the most fun I have with my friends and their porsche cars is spent underneath them working on them, making sure these 20 plus year old cars drive like they did (albeit lower) back when I first started my career working on them professionally. I personally love to just be around them, working on them with my best friends and my brother. I've had times in the shop fettling with these cars this past year that I will hold dear in my heart forever as awesome memories. A couple snarky comments from a brit I'll hopefully never meet is no big deal to me, theres nothing you can say or do that can take that fun, good memories and camaraderie away from us. If you like to go track your car good for you, but pushing your agenda down the throats of people who dont is just silly.
This pic right here sums up why I like my car on the lower side of the spectrum:
My car is not up to this level currently but Im headed that way. It might take me years to accomplish but Im not stupid, I know theres lots of time and money to spend on RS uprights, RSR bits here and there that make things work at this height, more monoballs etc. I know the difference, I realize that a vast majority of the "low guys" do not though. I used to have the pleasure of working crew for a 993 RSR back in '96 or so, I cant get the way that car sat out of my head... its something inside that I have to accomplish. In the meantime Im quite happy with the modifications I've done to my car thus far and I can tell you it does exactly what I want it to do. If I wanted to autocross i'd change it and go autocross, if I wanted to do serious track work without blowing RSR money I'd also change it to suit and go do so but I dont want those things.
Is it possible that this is maybe one of the droids you were looking for?
airride, toed out like crazy and wheels that only fit when it isnt driveable? Money spent in areas that are retardedly irresponsible when we can all assume the mechanicals of this car are lets say "less than perfect". I'd bet money that car needs thousands of dollars worth of work to be a "nice" 964. It is shiny though isnt it? Sweet sticker too.
Im on board with the dislike for this 110%
here is the guy that owns it:
fits your stereotype to a T
heres the stuff he posts on IG:
This all fits well within the Rennlist demographic right? I dont think so, not even close. In fact this is what I was getting at. These are the guys bringing everyone else down with them, literally and figuratively. It embarrases me to be a 964 owner with kids like this acting like they are something with these cars.
I've already said way too much but I felt it to be appropriate. Frank/black betty I understand that you were sending shots across the bow of the "low boat" so to speak and not picking out individuals, well maybe here and there. I hope I've made where Im personally coming from clear enough for anyone who bothered to read all this. I've spoke my peace here so I dont feel guilty by association anymore, since you lumped us into a group and all. I chose not to vote because I dont feel like a part of either group you've given us to choose from.
If anyone wants to see what Im about I post on IG pretty frequently, I just love cars.. especially Porsche cars. username is the same as here, lateforlunch
Frank/black betty its like you want to want to stir the pot and get a dog pile going any time the subject comes up, hence this topic as well i suppose. It seems to me that you are lashing out at people who arent even rennlist members. I think what you mean is that its on the tip of your tongue. I appreciate the fact that this forum is on average an older and more refined user and in a nutshell a vastly different demographic compared to a bunch of young guys modding vw golfs. I can ever so slightly identify with you on this subject as I dont like the young guys with 964's that managed to slip into these cars at the last affordable minute. Im very glad that 964's are finally getting the attention they have always deserved, I wish it would have happened sooner to help keep the bone heads out. In my opinion a few of those guys are bringing the entire 964 scene down with their antics, and making us all look bad. I'll provide an example but theres a few things I'd like to touch on first.
First off I noticed one of your very first example pics was Brians mint green car. Any reason you didnt choose the pictures of him driving it at the ring? or was it just not convenient for your goals for this topic.
Second this pic is photoshopped to be that low:
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...0jao1_1280.jpg
so thats not real
The rest of your provided example pics just come off to me as "look how much better at 964's my crew is than these guys". Ok so you get out and drive with your mates.... so do a lot of us. I've had a blast getting up at the crack of dawn to go to cars and coffee irvine with my brother and 2 close friends Brian (todehandler) and Andy (financd964) as well as other car related events here in socal. If you think you had more fun than we did thats fine, but what a childish way to try and hammer your point home yet another time to a bunch of people who could really care less. In all honesty the most fun I have with my friends and their porsche cars is spent underneath them working on them, making sure these 20 plus year old cars drive like they did (albeit lower) back when I first started my career working on them professionally. I personally love to just be around them, working on them with my best friends and my brother. I've had times in the shop fettling with these cars this past year that I will hold dear in my heart forever as awesome memories. A couple snarky comments from a brit I'll hopefully never meet is no big deal to me, theres nothing you can say or do that can take that fun, good memories and camaraderie away from us. If you like to go track your car good for you, but pushing your agenda down the throats of people who dont is just silly.
This pic right here sums up why I like my car on the lower side of the spectrum:
My car is not up to this level currently but Im headed that way. It might take me years to accomplish but Im not stupid, I know theres lots of time and money to spend on RS uprights, RSR bits here and there that make things work at this height, more monoballs etc. I know the difference, I realize that a vast majority of the "low guys" do not though. I used to have the pleasure of working crew for a 993 RSR back in '96 or so, I cant get the way that car sat out of my head... its something inside that I have to accomplish. In the meantime Im quite happy with the modifications I've done to my car thus far and I can tell you it does exactly what I want it to do. If I wanted to autocross i'd change it and go autocross, if I wanted to do serious track work without blowing RSR money I'd also change it to suit and go do so but I dont want those things.
Is it possible that this is maybe one of the droids you were looking for?
airride, toed out like crazy and wheels that only fit when it isnt driveable? Money spent in areas that are retardedly irresponsible when we can all assume the mechanicals of this car are lets say "less than perfect". I'd bet money that car needs thousands of dollars worth of work to be a "nice" 964. It is shiny though isnt it? Sweet sticker too.
Im on board with the dislike for this 110%
here is the guy that owns it:
fits your stereotype to a T
heres the stuff he posts on IG:
This all fits well within the Rennlist demographic right? I dont think so, not even close. In fact this is what I was getting at. These are the guys bringing everyone else down with them, literally and figuratively. It embarrases me to be a 964 owner with kids like this acting like they are something with these cars.
I've already said way too much but I felt it to be appropriate. Frank/black betty I understand that you were sending shots across the bow of the "low boat" so to speak and not picking out individuals, well maybe here and there. I hope I've made where Im personally coming from clear enough for anyone who bothered to read all this. I've spoke my peace here so I dont feel guilty by association anymore, since you lumped us into a group and all. I chose not to vote because I dont feel like a part of either group you've given us to choose from.
If anyone wants to see what Im about I post on IG pretty frequently, I just love cars.. especially Porsche cars. username is the same as here, lateforlunch
10-03-2014, 12:32 AM
#29
Although I do hate that 964's have become mainly acquired for scene points in the VW/Audi scene, I have to admit its how I came wanting to own one since the low GTI. However, once I got to drive a decent 964 I could never slam it, just takes all the fun out of it. And whereas driving the GTI really low around NY was ok, have to say a slammed 964 would just be terrible. So kudos to the people who put up with it.
10-03-2014, 12:36 AM
#30
Instructor
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In the past few months I've spent quite a bit of money and time to make my car perform much better when I could have easily slapped on more "cool" parts such as a cage or some snazzy recaros or anything else on the "look what I did to my 964" checklist. This time in particular was one of dans references to some excellent memories had because of these cars. He has taught me the right way to own one of these cars. If you think my car is too low, I don't care. Brian has driven his car all across Europe and America at that ride height.
For your info I rarely "show" my car. One of my best friends owns rotiform and obviously I will do anything to support him.... the picture you offered up of my car at a show is also to help support Brian and rotiform and enjoy the day with my very close friends.
To me it goes way beyond "stance".... I've been doing this type of thing to cars way before that verbiage existed :beer:
For your info I rarely "show" my car. One of my best friends owns rotiform and obviously I will do anything to support him.... the picture you offered up of my car at a show is also to help support Brian and rotiform and enjoy the day with my very close friends.
To me it goes way beyond "stance".... I've been doing this type of thing to cars way before that verbiage existed :beer: