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Old 08-22-2014, 10:58 PM
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keynes
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"Yep, the 964 was generally considered to be a rather unattractive car so they didn't sell many. It boggles my mind that 964's are selling for more than 993's. What that tells me is that the collectors are now driving the market more than the enthusiasts. The latter almost always gravitate toward the 993. However the former will care more about rarity than driving experience.
Not trashing the 964 at all; they're decent cars. But they have long since been considered the red headed step child of the air cooled 911 family. Again, take a look at the sales figures. Also, recall that, until very recently, one could grab a 964 for super cheap compared to a 993 or even a 3.2."
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:36 PM
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Source?
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:28 AM
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:22 AM
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Tis better to me misjudged, than loved for all the wrong reasons.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:15 AM
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Some thought the 964 to be a "plastic" 911. But alas look at the "accordian bumper" 1974-1989 911 era....

What people realize now is that the 964 has ABS and coil over suspension with the classic 911 headlights.
A dream combo.

Prices are up there with 993.... Maybe even surpass the 993 based on the classic headlight design that everybody is chasing..
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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I mean, he's not lying... 964 wasn't a popular choice among the Porsche enthusiasts from everything that I read. It's more or less been an outcast from the Porsche lineage until these recent years.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:40 AM
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Red headed step child huh? Why don't you just insult my Mom too. I went to our local dealer, Brumos to look at a red 993 coupe to possibly buy. I put the word out to them that I was in the market for an air cooled car after my 996 was tragically struck from behind and totaled. While walking to the back of the lot I saw her. A midnight blue 964 cab. I told the sales guy,"That's the car I want!" He said, "It's not for sale. That's my car." Circumstances changed after several months and I was able to talk him into selling me his car. I've had 6 Porsches. I have 2 now, a Cayenne and the 964 and of all the 964 has been the most fun. I'm so glad I waited and got the car I wanted for 25,000 instead of the status air cooled 993 for 48,000. BTW I could sell the 964 now for 10 grand more than I bought it for but why would I? Look at her!!!!!
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:24 AM
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When I bought mine...

I am an enthusiast. I have no "collection"....start there.

I wanted a 964 because it's the old style that can be used as a daily driver. And it was the least expensive. I am "that guy"...always wanted one since I was a kid at the track...so when the time came, I went out and looked for one to buy.

My dad, car guy, said "go with a 993, much better car. Newer, problems had been worked out...la la la.

I said. No. I want a 964.

I called vintage porsche dealers. Richard Sloan practically told me I was an idiot. Said he "never buys 964s cuz they are garbage. They have a ton of problems. Unless it was something really special, he wouldn't touch one." I argued. He got audibly unhappy with the conversation and clearly wanted me to buy the 993 he had listed for 36k, or to leave him alone.
I was in the car driving back from Hartford after having unsuccessfully offered 13k for a 1991 c2 listed for 18k that had a few minor issues. I wanted the 18k 964 with minor issues more than a 993 issues or no...
Every dealer I spoke to at the time and the porsche/Audi specialist I used at the time told me the same. "964s are garbage, they break all the time. Lots of problems."

A friend out me in touch with a 964 guy in the pca. He told me to buy a c2 if I wanted x y and z. A c4 if I wanted la la la. And to look for this and that when I was seeing a car. Gave me the rundown on the oil leaks. Why they were never are are not an issue. And and and.

I bought the next car I saw.

My feeling has always been this. Anyone that has ever said "don't buy a 964. Buy a....(3.2 or a 993), simply has never owned a 964. End of story. Inside the community it's been clear as day. From the outside there was a lot of Mis-information that kept prices down. Seems like all of that is gone now and unfortunately prices are going up before I had a chance to buy every 964 available on the market...maybe that's a good thing...idk. All I know is I am happy when I drive mine. I drive it everyday. So everyday, I am happy. Not a bad way to be.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:32 AM
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I prefer to think of of the 964 as the librarian rather than the red-headed step child. Once you realize her inner beauty, you take off her glasses and let her hair down and VOILA!
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:38 AM
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Grab next months edition of '911 & Porsche World' magazine.

10 Page feature article on a bunch of 964 enthusiasts...
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BHCfarkas View Post
I mean, he's not lying... 964 wasn't a popular choice among the Porsche enthusiasts from everything that I read. It's more or less been an outcast from the Porsche lineage until these recent years.
Agree with this. Though not incorrect in statement, a little offensive to my persona taste! I, as someone who has really liked the 964 since it came out, find it far less surprising that the car is advancing in value. On the contrary, I've been baffled by the high premiums on the 993, which I always felt was a rather unattractive redesign.

The reasons are many, but I think the 997 getting more attractively priced has put buyers off of the 993 a bit. The 964 is more clearly in the classic camp while the 993 is in the uncomfortable in between zone. The 996 was not compelling enough to draw away from the 993, but the 997 is a different story.

The 996 turbo is getting close to a real bargain!

Cheers. My 3c.
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Goughary View Post
When I bought mine...

I am an enthusiast. I have no "collection"....start there.

I wanted a 964 because it's the old style that can be used as a daily driver. And it was the least expensive. I am "that guy"...always wanted one since I was a kid at the track...so when the time came, I went out and looked for one to buy.

My dad, car guy, said "go with a 993, much better car. Newer, problems had been worked out...la la la.

I said. No. I want a 964.

I called vintage porsche dealers. Richard Sloan practically told me I was an idiot. Said he "never buys 964s cuz they are garbage. They have a ton of problems. Unless it was something really special, he wouldn't touch one." I argued. He got audibly unhappy with the conversation and clearly wanted me to buy the 993 he had listed for 36k, or to leave him alone.
I was in the car driving back from Hartford after having unsuccessfully offered 13k for a 1991 c2 listed for 18k that had a few minor issues. I wanted the 18k 964 with minor issues more than a 993 issues or no...
Every dealer I spoke to at the time and the porsche/Audi specialist I used at the time told me the same. "964s are garbage, they break all the time. Lots of problems."

A friend out me in touch with a 964 guy in the pca. He told me to buy a c2 if I wanted x y and z. A c4 if I wanted la la la. And to look for this and that when I was seeing a car. Gave me the rundown on the oil leaks. Why they were never are are not an issue. And and and.

I bought the next car I saw.

My feeling has always been this. Anyone that has ever said "don't buy a 964. Buy a....(3.2 or a 993), simply has never owned a 964. End of story. Inside the community it's been clear as day. From the outside there was a lot of Mis-information that kept prices down. Seems like all of that is gone now and unfortunately prices are going up before I had a chance to buy every 964 available on the market...maybe that's a good thing...idk. All I know is I am happy when I drive mine. I drive it everyday. So everyday, I am happy. Not a bad way to be.
I like this "I drive it everyday. So everyday, I am happy"
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Goughary View Post
. Said he "never buys 964s cuz they are garbage. They have a ton of problems. Unless it was something really special, he wouldn't touch one." . Every dealer I spoke to at the time and the porsche/Audi specialist I used at the time told me the same. "964s are garbage, they break all the time. Lots of problems." be.
This is dead on with my experience. I did very little research other than call a few porsche 'specialists'. It was like talking to blind sheep...'no head gasket....so 'complex'...valve adjustments....'ugly'...

I came away thinking , 'I don't know WTF these guys are seeing in the 964 but all of it seems like delusional fears from yesteryear. After buying, for what seemed like $15000 less than I should have paid, my thoughts were confirmed. Glad I didn't listen.
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:51 PM
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Ahh! Goin against the grain feels good. My brother has a 98 C2S and a great car no doubt. But I wouldn't trade my 90 for it. Seriously!
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:18 PM
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^I've also heard lots of comments about 964s and their gremlins and complexity from the same people saying the 993 is much better. Yet, I really don't see any material differences between the 964 and 993 systems. If anything, the 964 is slightly simpler.
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