cobalt

If you look up total production numbers of the 13,000 or so US spec 964's there are very few 964 coupes to begin with the majority being early cars and mostly C4's. My guess is around 5373 or so coupes sold in the US and approximately 15,000 or so ROW coupes. BTW this does not include specialty cars like the RS or RSA, widebody etc.

There have been a number of threads regarding Singer, Long hood backdates RWB cars and then there are all those track builds and others that have seen the way of the dismantler. It appears hundreds maybe thousands of these cars have seen another life.

I do see a fair number of cabs and targas available but finding a good coupe is not easy and almost always they are an 89-90 C4. When a C2 does come up for sale they are becoming more pricey than a 993.

So just for ****s and giggles how many do you guess still exist in the US?

bobaines

This may help with the numbers by year.

Tmistry

So, what was the breakdown of C2 v C4? How do we know there were more C4's?

Regardless, small production for sure.

BeachBoy

There were almost as many coupe as convertible

and we se dozens of cabs for sale.

I think the coupe are just not for sale as much and people keep them more than the coupe. Also they sell within hours/days normally.

bobaines

We also lack the split between manual vs auto.

mike9186

I think you are onto something Cobalt. I did a nationwide 964 search on Ebay about a month ago and found '0' C2 Manual Coupes for sale. I then posted a question on Pelican's Marketplace Discussion forum about the current value of my car and got 5 private messages from people asking me to contact them when I am ready to sell.

My opinion is that there really aren't a lot of Manual C2 Coupes left in the US. Probably because in the past 20 years they

-Got totaled
-Converted to race cars when they were a dirt cheap option
-Shipped back to Europe or other parts of the world
-highly modified/backdated by Singer and others

How much they may appreciate going forward I have no idea. I'm actually conflicted about value increase because my car was bought with the sole intention of driving it anytime and anywhere I wanted. Now I sometimes find myself thinking for a split second if the drive I am about to take is worth the miles I am going to put on it (It always is!).

SuperUser

We know for sure that the 1117 89s are C4, this gives us 5189 coupes that possible could be a C2 5 speed.
I would guess in the USA 20% are tips and 30% are C4, leaving 2594.
Lets say 10% totaled, 15% track ratted or backdated, 10% shipped back to ROW leaving us with 1426 1990-1994 C2 5 speed coupes.

nathan1

I would argue that some of Adrian's numbers are not correct, for example he lists 768 RSA's and the correct number is 701. Nevertheless it's clear the most desirable (in the marketplace, not necessarily one owners preference) NA 964's are the 1992-1994 C2 manual coupes. Using Adrian's numbers there were 2414 C2,C4, RSA and C4 WB coupes made. If we assume 65% were C2's (just a WAG based on experience) there were 1569 C2 coupes, again if we assume 80% were manuals that gives us 1255 cars to start with. Obviously many have been lost to accidents, track car conversions, backdated, shipped overseas, etc. I think we would all agree that there are less than 1,000 of these cars left and that clearly is much lower than what total demand is. As a result we see a feeding frenzy for these cars, as evidenced by the high prices, multiple WTB ads etc.

At the end of the day, we have great cars that were under appreciated for a long time and the market has finally taken notice over the past 24 months, I don't think that's going to change. Buy one if you see one.

christallon

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Nathan said. It's simple supply and demand. The 964 was the last true 911 in terms of shape, intent, performance, simplicity, hand made quality and so on. The last true 911!!! This is not taking anything away from the 993 mind you. The 993 was the departure point for Porsche in terms of manufacturing, marketing, styling, and soon to be engine cooling. The 964 marks the last of the breed from old school to new technology, and given the limited numbers of produced cars, there is no denying the 964 appeal and value.

pu911rsr

I would assume that the 45 US Carrera Cups come out of 670 C2/C4 coupe for 1992.
Phil

ThomasC2

I've been looking in to this before. The numbers of manual Row C2s MY 92 are more or less the same as RS from 92, and people always call Euro RS "limited edition".

Tgo,as

Nylasurf

The much publicized 50th anniversary, and monumental coverage of the 964 this year most assuredly lead to the increase in demand this year, but I wouldn't say it is a simple supply and demand. 30,000+ coupes worldwide manufactured and 4,000+ Targas produced, but coupes command the higher price ( as a targa owner I may be biased). The demand for the coupes are there and the values reflect that, but there are far fewer targas, and yet they are priced at the lower end. I read an argument that the increase in RSA prices could be the fact that the demand for RS cars is high and the uninformed believe that they are the same. I am sure that the coverage of the modified cars and backdated cars has lead to more demand as it has attracted more people to the car than before. I bought my targa as it was my childhood fantasy car and as the C4 was the technical tour de force of the time, combined with the low production numbers...that was the car I wanted.

Here is a breakdown of numbers by model but not year courtesy of Wikipedia


Cobalt - I would think that there are a few thousand here in the US and each of their owners are holding them tightly, whether they are stock, race ready, modified or backdated. Interesting question to think about though...what do you think the price point will be when they decide to let go of them?

u7t2p7

This joker who goes by "Velocity Motors" in Los Angeles just listed a MY94 red/tan C2 coupe with +/- 35,000 miles, for $65,000 on Pelican.

vagluv

There were 36% more C2s than C4s? Now they are much harder to find. More totaled C2s??

BeachBoy

There is a red tan c2 coupe 1994 for sale $39k with 42k miles