Cupcar

Well, 964 guys and gals, look at the casting number on the crankcase of this new GT3. Look familiar? It's the crankcase from the good 'ol air cooled car. Note where the drain tubes for the cylinder heads would go into the crankcase on our cars. Pretty cool I think.

BrokeAss

Yeah! I noticed that when I went to Parade and saw a GT3 there. They had one backed up on a ramp and naturally, I crawled underneath to have a look and noticed the casting stamp. Bruce Anderson also mentioned it during his tech session. Funny that with all the parts in the Porsche parts bin, they chose to pull out a 15 year old block instead of one from the 996!

N105DVV

That is interesting, but not surprising.

Depending on what/where you read, the GT3 is supposed to be based on technology? from the GT1. Does this mean the GT1 is based on rock solid 964 components too??

The 993RS is also riddled with 964RS part numbers.

When Porsche was commissioned by Audi for the RS2 project. They went back to the old audi quattro 20V lump. And got a very reliable/conservative 315ps out of it.

Question: Therfore are manufacturers and motor writers being premature when bold statements are made regarding the leaps and bounds made in engine technology?? Sure, technological acheivements are made, but is it radical new design based on the current model or further develpment of a 20 year legacy.................

BR/Phil...

Rick964

I saw the same castings underneath a 996TT, and I would assume the GT2 would be the same.

Adrian

Dear Terry,
Porsche Motorsports actually never stopped using the 964 engine block for all their racing projects including the GT-1 and the GT-3s. They have not pulled it out of the bin they have not stopped using it.
I heard some seriously sad news about Porsche Motorsports on the weekend and if anyone expected Porsche to return to factory team racing in the near to medium future, forget it. In fact you may see some seriously negative changes at Porsche Motorsports from what a little birdie told me.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Cupcar

Too bad Porsche is furthur from racing than ever. Too bad because this is what their reputation is based on.

The fact the GT3 came with a 964 crankcase was known to me before I took the picture I posted above. I saw the Turbo engine at it's introduction at the Frankfurt auto show and noted the same crankcase was also used on the GT3 on display there as well. So, a picture of this crankcase was the first I wanted to take when I saw a GT3 here in the USA. Nice the crankcase had GT3 written on if for the photo op. Clearly a hand built piece.

The GT3's crankcase was designed in the early 60's and was used in the engine for the original 901, later to be called the 911.

The 901's engine was developed for racing as a pure air cooled engine for many racing cars including the 906, 910, all 911 RSR variants until the 935 when the water cooled 4 valve cylinder head was introduced. The 935 still had air cooled cylinders. This hybrid water/air cooling was developed and used on and off for various cars until finally the last 962 cars had a fully water cooled engine. This was accomplished by eliminating the fins on the cylinders and installing a water jacket over the cylinders to complement the water cooled head. Through it all, the same basic dry sump crankcase persisted, albeit with some modifications. The 901 crankcase was used for all Porsche street 911's up to and including the 993.

The GT3/GT2/Turbo engine is a derivative of the last 962 engines. This is Porsche history and racing heritage at it's best, and what the company should be based on IMHO.

The normal 996/911 and 986/Boxster water cooled engine is an engine developed strictly for street use and to control production costs and has no racing heritage.

clubrcr

Adrian:

You have our attention, do tell.... What did the birdie say?

Bill Gregory

Snip of a recently post in the Racing forum:

Porsche delays return to motor racing
For financial reasons [24/07/03 - 10:55]

Porsche, the German maker of luxury sports cars, has decided to delay its planned return to motor racing for financial reasons, chairman Wendelin Wiedeking said in an interview published in the Thursday edition of Financial Times Deutschland.

Adrian

The story is that Porsche Motorsports is to be converted into a GmbH. This means it becomes a company in its own right and then has to actually make a profit. No longer will company funds be available to the department as it is now. There are also some problems with the labour unions as well over how the changes to a company will occur and how the current employees will be treated andwhat they have to do to get a jop at the new company. The end result of such a change is that Porsche racing can only be funded from within the new companies profits. Seeing as their only program is the customer racing cars they will never have the funding to go ful time factory top of the line racing. Plus all the serious players from Motorsports are gone. Who knows where this will end up but the statement from the company above which has been out for 2 weeks, only provides a little glimpse into the real issue. From what I know I have to say that racing as we would like to see it is dead at PAG until at least 2008. I hope I am wrong and let us wait to be surprised but it does not look good.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

oldtimer

Not good news then, but no surprises. I shall use this as an occasion to dress in black and back the black 964RS out of the garage for a bit of a blast in memory of its racing heritage. Maybe a drink or two of guinness later to keep the theme running , will avoid a toast to the bean-counters tho....

Ade - C4 91

Perhaps fitting the 8 or 9 extra cup holders into the Cayenne cost them too much in research and development and it now hurting the bottom line

Ade.

Flying Finn

Those *****ng liars and bastards!

Why couldn't VW buy the company already and kick Mr. W. & other suits out there, we might actually have something left what Porsche used to be.

Now Porsche is what so many people have praised, independent,
and look how great it is!

We'll see in 10 years when Porsche (as we know it) is down to drain (or is it already?) and people there don't even know what "Racing Heritage" means.

I'm beyong pissed.

warmfuzzies

So economic downturn? or Cayenne a financial drain?

Kevin

Ruairidh

Something similar happened to Team Lotus after Colin Chapman's death.

Team Lotus had long been a separate legal entity owned by Colin but separate from the stock exchange listed Group Lotus. However both the car and the racing orgs had been under common control (the Chapman family) the smaller Team Lotus had benefited greatly from free help and use of Group resources. This, as I understand it, came to a stop when, after Chunky's death, control of the Group Lotus passed on while Team Lotus remained with the Chapman family.

What I don't understand however from Adrian's post (and my knowledge of German company law ain't great) is why simply becoming a GmbH has this impact.

If Porsche Motorsports were to be hived off and no longer be a group company (which would be the similar result to the Team Lotus situation) I can see that everyhing would need to be done on arms-length terms.

However if it is just being made into a GmbH but still owned by PAG then, while there would be the potential for inter-group charges, the ultimate bottom line at the Porsche holding company level remains the same?

Cupcar

I personally don't care of they race for an overall win or a class win at Le Mans or whatever.

I just want them to build all their street cars with a direct link to whatever they are racing!!!

I think this is what will help Porsche substantiate the prices they are getting for the cars, otherwise they are in danger of being perceived as just another Japanese style sports car.

Hopefully, at some point, the emperor will put his clothes back on.